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In the new version of 1X I see something that I don't recall from the older version with regards to criticizing photos.
More often than not I see that as part of the provision of criticism the criticizer make the suggested correction on the photo subject to critique and re-display it.
Although I can see the benefit of this practice, I feel that as a photographer I would rather have all the criticism and suggestions in writing and then I would go about applying the changes on my photos as I see fit. It feels somewhat patronizing to make the changes on someone else's work.
What do you think? Agree/ Disagree?
Guy,
First of all, thank you for your feedback on this matter. I assume you're commenting on the Senior Critics section of 1X - the one you find by clicking the blue button, 'Discussion Forum' or with the URL . . . https://1x.com/forum/critique
I can't speak for all the Senior Critics, but personally I find the new capability of editing and re-posting screen shots useful. It's often much easier and more efficient to show a suggestion than to try and explain it with words. But because it's a new thing, we may be over-using it a little. Members who want critique come to the Senior Critics section asking for suggestions and advice. We do our best to be helpful and polite. Perhaps in the introduction we should advise the members posting their photos that we may offer some editing suggestions by editing and re-posting their photo.
The Head Senior Critic is Mike Kreiten. I'll ask him to watch this thread.
. . . . Steven T.
In the new version of 1X I see something that I don't recall from the older version with regards to criticizing photos.
More often than not I see that as part of the provision of criticism the criticizer make the suggested correction on the photo subject to critique and re-display it.
Although I can see the benefit of this practice, I feel that as a photographer I would rather have all the criticism and suggestions in writing and then I would go about applying the changes on my photos as I see fit. It feels somewhat patronizing to make the changes on someone else's work.
What do you think? Agree/ Disagree?
Hello Guy,
I agree with your comment. The problem with heavily editing a photo as part of curatation is that it can change the vision and look that the photographer had in the original photo.
Does anyone really want to tell Stanley Kubrick that his persanol vision in 2001: A Space Odessy was flawed?
Technical issues are different from aesthetic ones.
Al
Dear Daniel
This post does not come as a reaction to any right or wrong doing by you. I believe you may be confusing me with someone else as I can't recall that I have posted any picture under photography or getting your comments. I must start with saying that I full of respect to the critique forum on 1X. I think, this is what diferentiate it from other sites. The Senior Critics are great. They are very knowledgeable and have good advices. Your photos are stunning and I will always be happy to get your comments on my photos. If you look at the photos that are now in the Critique forum you would see that for many of them a new post processing was suggested by the different criticizers that included re-posting the photos by the criticizers with in a new look. This may be viewed, by many, as helpful but personally I think I would gain more from a written criticism, being as blunt and direct as needed. I can later go and try the different suggestion on my photos. There have been times that I even got guidance on which tools to use on PS, which was great and made me learn new techniques. I may be in a minority here and many other photographer may be very happy with this process but I believe it is a good discussion point.
Again, I'm fully respectful for your work and support to this community.
Guy
Hi Guy you are right I had you mixed up with another Guy - I have removed my post.
Dear Guy,
I like it when people share their opinion, otherwise we can't know what they're thinking. So thank you for the occasion to give you my view.
I'm writing critiques for more than 4 years now, starting on the "classic" 1x. I'm very happy the critique forum still exits, it's like a parallel universum many members appreciate and read. The original plan was to replace it with the other critique, the one you can apply for after rejection.
The advantage of the forum is that you can receive opinions and potential suggestions for improvement before(!) you submit to curation. Also, the critics are not anonymous, you can have a look at their own work and have a better understanding of their preferences and skills.
In the old 1x, we only could verbalize our thoughts and suggestions. The team then, and many of these are still critics today, always wanted to have a "versioning". When members deleted their originals, critiques were gone. If they wanted to show what they did to their photos after critique, they had to post it again. That would not be possible today, since we don't see what members post, we only see what was published.
The possibility to actually show changes to photos both ways made the exchange with posting members far more interactive, which we and members enjoy.
It's also easier for those people who just read the forum, they now see a history on each photo if versions are exchanged.
Your observation though is of course right. When we finally got the possibility to alter photos and show what we mean, we may have overdone it. I was looking at it for a while and a couple of months ago I asked(!) the team to switch gears. It's so easy to alter a photo and show a different version, I could also use liquify on Mona Lisa and make her prettier. Would it become better? Not necessarily, I think.
My advice to the team was that if anything was altered, a re-post of another version should be explained in two ways, why we changed something and what exactly, ideally also how we altered it. Though I'm not a bossy lead of the group and I can't tell the voluntary working critics what to do, I felt the need this had to be said and immediately was accepted - because it makes total sense.
Writing critiques is a passion for the group, we enjoy interaction and often receive gratefulness. I of course read you visit the forum and appreciate our work. As you may know everybody can write critiques, not only crew members. GIve it a shot if you like, and do it old-school with just words. I've done that for many years, and also enjoyed critique then. But you can also try to use the possibility of showing something and experience the feature.
I'd love to see your participation in the forum, maybe you even find out you have a passion for writing critiques, too...
Mike
The simple answer is to NOT re-work ANY image UNLESS and UNTILL specifically given permission by the original poster asking for critique.
The simple answer is to NOT re-work ANY image UNLESS and UNTILL specifically given permission by the original poster asking for critique.
This is the way we work, Peter, and it's very obvious and visible for everybody.
I wonder if you really understood why I think the possibility to share edits or illustrations of our suggestions helps to offer the service we do.
If members don't like it, the even more simple answer is not to participate in critique.
Another possible solution is to advise members posting photos that, as part of the critique process, their image may be captured as a screen shot, edited, and re-posted. When posting a photo to the Senior Critic section, there is already some introductory text that members are expected to read - we could just add another sentence to that. Mike - what do you think?
. . . . Steven
I think it's a very good feature and a good way of having real exchange. Nothing more to say.
https://1x.com/forum/critique/composing-portrait-in-nature
Maybe ths critique convinces you we don't want to just play around with shots posted just because we are too lazy to write and help.
Mike
Dear Guy,
I like it when people share their opinion, otherwise we can't know what they're thinking. So thank you for the occasion to give you my view.
I'm writing critiques for more than 4 years now, starting on the "classic" 1x. I'm very happy the critique forum still exits, it's like a parallel universum many members appreciate and read. The original plan was to replace it with the other critique, the one you can apply for after rejection.
The advantage of the forum is that you can receive opinions and potential suggestions for improvement before(!) you submit to curation. Also, the critics are not anonymous, you can have a look at their own work and have a better understanding of their preferences and skills.
In the old 1x, we only could verbalize our thoughts and suggestions. The team then, and many of these are still critics today, always wanted to have a "versioning". When members deleted their originals, critiques were gone. If they wanted to show what they did to their photos after critique, they had to post it again. That would not be possible today, since we don't see what members post, we only see what was published.
The possibility to actually show changes to photos both ways made the exchange with posting members far more interactive, which we and members enjoy.
It's also easier for those people who just read the forum, they now see a history on each photo if versions are exchanged.
Your observation though is of course right. When we finally got the possibility to alter photos and show what we mean, we may have overdone it. I was looking at it for a while and a couple of months ago I asked(!) the team to switch gears. It's so easy to alter a photo and show a different version, I could also use liquify on Mona Lisa and make her prettier. Would it become better? Not necessarily, I think.
My advice to the team was that if anything was altered, a re-post of another version should be explained in two ways, why we changed something and what exactly, ideally also how we altered it. Though I'm not a bossy lead of the group and I can't tell the voluntary working critics what to do, I felt the need this had to be said and immediately was accepted - because it makes total sense.
Writing critiques is a passion for the group, we enjoy interaction and often receive gratefulness. I of course read you visit the forum and appreciate our work. As you may know everybody can write critiques, not only crew members. GIve it a shot if you like, and do it old-school with just words. I've done that for many years, and also enjoyed critique then. But you can also try to use the possibility of showing something and experience the feature.
I'd love to see your participation in the forum, maybe you even find out you have a passion for writing critiques, too...
Mike
Dear Mike
Thank you so much for taking the time and responding to me with such depth. I apologize for not responding earlier. I did not get any notification that you have responded. (Maybe something that can be improved.)
I pretty much agree with everything that you wrote. New tools should be used but should not be overused and when they are used, be used with the right amount of sensitivity. Criticizers need to be continuous of the fact that they are dealing with other people work of art (even if they don't think it is that good). An offer to demonstrate on the photo would probably in many cases, be welcomed.
I benefitted a lot from the critique process and was always thankful for the responses I got.
From time to time, I take the time to provide my own criticism. Hopefully, in respectfully and constructive manner.
A little bit off the point, but as you mention my participation in the forum, I would like to mention that in two separate occasions when the 1X Magazine wanted to promote the Critique forum, it chose to do it by using my photos as an example for a good critique process.
https://1x.com/magazine/permalink/8502
https://1x.com/magazine/permalink/9174
To conclude, I highly appreciate and respect the process the Senior Critics and all other contributors.
I'm also happy that my post here ignited some interest in the subject of how we communicate between ourselves.
