For what my opinion is worth, I agree with your analysis 100% but disagree with your conclusions. I think we can never find the "right" balance between recognition of a member participation (through critique, curation, forums... etc) and the recognition of an excellent photographer (published photos). Two aspects, two recognitions: two rankings. I think it would save a lot of headaches ;) And 100% for respect and politeness, always :)

100% agreed with you Christoph:-) I see member curation, more as a replacement of critique section, which has lost a little his unique value, should become much more important again, "strongly awarded" for those who participate with good advise, for photographer who want it and learn and improve with it.

Excellent post Christoph. Thank you for assembling our thoughts and comments into one understandable and respectful post. I have to say, I feel for the founders here... it is a really tough decision with so many elements to consider. How are they supposed to please everyone? It cannot be possible. But can anyone argue with the fact that published photos should be reasonably awarded? That is the very foundation of 1x, is it not? This is coming from someone with almost a year in membership, hundreds of uploaded photographs, and 0 publications :)) I would like my contributions to the community to be recognized but the great artists here are the ones that make this all possible.

One cannot argue with the fact that published photos should be reasonably awarded. We already have a "curator portal" which shows the levels of those CC'ing (clicking and commenting). I certainly am not a top dog photog on this site, but hope to get better - there's something about curating that trains your eye. Thanks for your excellent post and observation Christoph.

Wise words Chris, totally agree with everything you wrote. Thanks for taking your precious time and sharing your thoughts.

Great job Christoph From the fella of few words :-)

As I already said we need some change and what you said sound very good Christoph. :-))

You summarized it very well Christoph. I fully agree. Changes can be useful, but they to stay in line with what's the ultimate goal of this site: promoting top photography

I am with you Christoph ! excellent summarized !

Wise & strong point you summarized Christoph. I fully agree with you on your suggestion. 100% support it! - to increase the value of published images, top photographers belong on top. (point for every published photo must be much higher than single vote, now is 50p against 1p, perhaps 100 against 0.1 for vote without comment) - to increase the value of - to be awarded - good critiques in critique section. (additional point for vote with comment, depends on star given by real curator) - to decrease the impact of simple clicks in curation. (0.1p for vote without comment, 1p if the vote for published match the publication) may I suggest to change the terminology for CURATOR? let it left to the professional curator and find other name for the voter curator. It makes confusion on the ground and reduce the prestige of the curator role of the real curator.

I agree, and if i may (now that some waters and time already passed under the bridge) i can also say my view of the "status quo": 1) it´s a sociological fact: people don´t like changes (Kant, first,and kelsen, after, wrote it in a nice way) but they always want better "things", that by themselves always imply "changes" 2) I think that it´s not very hard to agree that it´s not a nice thing to see pictures of Ben Goossens with 55% and of Jef Van den Houte with 54%, just to give an exemple, but we could stay here for a long time wondering the same with some other great photographers, because there are plenty of "bad" results of the new curation system. 3) 1X always made "the diference" by quality, not quantity, and, for sure, not popularity. Quality was the "face" of 1X in the 4 corners of the world. For those other aspects (popularity, etc, etc) there are many sites to go for. For Quality, at this level, just 1X (and ok..., maybe another one, but in a smaller scale) and when people come to 1X was for this: to see quality. 4) but this was then..., and for now...? what are the main goal of 1X...? Are the main goal the same...? Are we in the same heading? We (and myself, of course) presume that is the same. But we just don´t know that. I just hope so :) We don´t know the market studies, the comercial strategies and so on. 5) I think i understand the "new path" of 1X - to be a major (the bigger...?) photo comunity in the world, to be a place where people actually can "be" and "live" photography, to absorve as many photographers as possible in the world, and where "people can grow" their photographic skills and, then, after, stay here. 6) If I´m right these are fantastic goals to aim for. 7) but, imho, time already proved that is impossible to maintain the same quality with the new curation system. 8) For that i think the "system" needs a "security valve": situations like the above cannot be present in 1X if we are in the "same old track"; quality, i mean. 9) What "security valve" and how...? I don´t know but, 10) Maybe now i can already say that It´s a fact that for the same quality level the site cannot live by "itself", without the "human hand" of the resident curators..., and they should be the "engine and heart" of that "security valve". 11) Last, I think the intentions in curation are not always, but often, the very best..., time already shows that people use "that power" in a not very nice way, just to bring down some pictures. Of course, in a huge Universe of pics and photographers, someday, that would be a small part of the activity, but now it´s not the case, and that shows a lot, very often. 12) In the end, i just hope that people come here to see quality photographs; great photographers; "hand picked" photographs by well known curators, and not to see popularity or play the "let´s play the curation and have some fun with it". 13) In the very end, i just hope and wish that 1X remain the world "reference" for amateur photography, i just hope and wish that 1X became the world largest and biggest photograph comunity, i just hope and wish that 1X would be the Better photograph comunity in the world, 14) and i think with the necessary tunnings and changes that could be done with the "new (not new anymore) system" , but i have many doubts if that could be done without the "human hand", like until now. 15) what i just wrote can be totally wrong, but it´s just the way i see it, and sure it´s for the best for this great comunity. Thx all.

Well said Hans. If you have to compare ( talking generally, not about you, you seem to be a very decent guy ) compare photographer's skills on shooting the same subject. People really seem to think they can compare by the amount of published images, or favorites/followers. "Judge" the skills of photographers comparing a portrait shot with a landscape shot. Especially regarding the landscapists, what do people think ? We can teleport ourselves to every nice location every single day and shoot ? I don't think so. Especially the ones who do photography as a hobby or semi-professionally while keeping our normal daily job or business. I love shooting landscapes with my partner, but all we get is 1 to 2 days max per week, and we don't always have the time and chances ( weather conditions, etc ) to visit a nice landscape. Since we're based in a city ( Athens ) we have to travel at least 300km ( make it 600km with our way back home ) to visit a possibly interesting landscape, and sometimes it is boring as hell and totally uninteresting. Can I compare myself on technical knowledge, composition, etc with a portrait photographer ? Especially if judging like most people do by the amount of published photos. And why do we have to compare ourselves or others ? Really, why ? If a person who you consider to be a "non-skilled" photographer produces a brilliant photo, you don't enjoy viewing it ? Sure you do. Perhaps some of you may not admit it, but you know you do. If we can't have a peaceful site/community, imagine how difficult achieving REAL world peace is ( even if we could get rid of any scumbags from the politics scene ). peace out!

Hans, for me a member with 50 pictures published and 6 year membership is more experienced than a 3 month newbie with 5 pictures published. No doubt..,it's clear to me because 6 years is a long time enough to improve for everyone who is just looking at the 1x frontpage and trying to understand why there are some pictures published and others not... Also 50 published pictures is quite a nice number..:) and tells more about his work than about his colleague with 5 pictures in the published gallery only. Hans and Bill, I am the one of those older members.., I don˝t know how long you are here guys, but as I came here 1x was showing the TOP quality only. Members had even no possibility to show rejected pictures like we can in our portfolio now. You could find published pictures only in each member's gallery. Do you remember this? Curation is a nice feature indeed but tells nothing about skills of the person who is giving a critics even when he is doing this very often and takes enormous amount of time for this activity. Critic comment is just a subjective opinion, each one is based on how a user is experienced in photography. Personally, I use to look into the gallery of people who are giving a comment or a critics to my shot. I am pretty sure I don't need to explain why...Don't you do the same? My findings of the members curation..., I went through the comments several times and realized that some are very helpful, some are just descriptive telling about what one can see in the picture only, some comments even could mislead a less experienced member sending his image to curators and also for the less experienced readers...some great shots would have never been published if it was up to members and on the other side of coin the Frontpage gallery would have been showing less quality..for sure! Bill, I am also a passionate landscape photographer, not a professional... it is the same with me as you wrote, I have also the same obstacles regarding taking my the time and weather in my photography...I won't write about how many times I tend to visit the same place to get the result I have in my mind...and most of them remain in my mind only without meeting a success..But no one cares, people are interested in results only , they do not care. Its the same in any genre. One would complain that the model don't know to realize the pose or expression, street photographer would complain that there is nothing interesting in the streets...and so on.. I would never dare to tell that I am skilled, never.. I am always learning much and improving...but no one can persuade me that the top members list of 1x as the famous and worlds most exclusive photography site should be based on curation comments of people who are just taking much time to hit the "Publish or Reject" button than many of other experienced photographers can. So I 'm going to finish with the question...no need to answer...everyone knows his own... Why do you think that each one of professional curators here on 1x is a great and experienced photographer? Why did not Ralf and Jacob ask anybody who is less experienced to select images on the Frontpage? Consider please my comment as not offensive, just telling my thoughts... Greetings, Peter

Like you said, curation comments vary in quality and accuracy a lot. Taking personal opinion out of the question, because we all have some things that we prefer and others that don't intrigue us while it may intrigue another person. I'm pretty sure that there are at least 10 people in the curation with excellent technical and compositional knowledge. Do they apply their knowledge to their own shots ? Don't know. Most probably won't. It's not just an experience thing. Some are meant to "teach" others to shoot, and others to do both. Some need more development time, others less. What I know is, for sure, if for example 1x needs more official curators, the new curation theme is a way for them to see who is capable of taking such responsibilities. Regarding the non-published images. This is where at least partially you are wrong. Because like it has been mentioned before, the 1x Curators might publish an image that was initially rejected. So, what you're saying ( that only the published photos are the best photos on the site ) isn't entirely true, because if you take some time looking at various people's portfolios, I guarantee you that you'll find some very publishable photos that haven't been published ( yet, rejected, or never sent for curation for example ).

I agree bill. As far as I can tell the curation system yes is a way to keep users engaged but it is also as you hinted at, a way for the founders to find new curators. As it says in the curator portal, those who reach level 8 have the possibility of becoming an official curator. But how? Just by clicking a lot? That is so unfair! No... it is similar to an apprenticeship where you must dedicate many hours to the practice and reach approval of your master. Clicking is part of it but this is exposing you to thousands and thousands of images to teach your eye. Also you must comment 150 five star comments, this again is a time commitment but also proves your understanding of image and art analysis. Then not to mention the endorsements, this is probably the most difficult. Maybe the lvl 1 endorsements come easy especially if you are a popular photographer, even lvl 2 for some, but unless you truly deserve it you will not receive the lvl 3 endorsements required to advance. I believe that. So this system is a filter. I think very few people will attain lvl 8. Plenty will get 70k points no doubt but only those who earn it will become lvl 8. And even then it only states that you have the 'possibility' to become an official curator. I think this has little to do with how many publications you have but it would certainly help to also be a top class photographer, not only with acquiring points but in the eyes of the founders who ultimately have the decision to promote you to this position. I dont think it is a requirement but probably will be the 'rule'. I would be very surprised to see an unpublished member become a curator just because I think in the eyes of a lot of experienced members that would be ground upon, like Peter.

frowned*. and let me restructure something I said. I think whether or not you are a good curator has little to do with your amount of publication however who the founders chose as official curators are in fact going to be users who are also fantastic photogs for there reason peter and I stated. it is partly a matter of credibility.

Guys, as I've already mentioned, the members curation is a great and very useful feature. I think there is no doubt about its value. This blog theme is about the new awards and it was just an explanation from my point of view to the theme. You are doing a good job guys if you are writing more detailed and helpful comments in curation ! You know, 1X is Ralph's and Jacob's child and they've put a lot of effort into developing and improving the site. I am pretty sure that they interested in members opinion. Peter

Well, many good photographers want recognition for their good photographs, and not for points for hours spent in curation. If you think it does not matter what is exactly appreciated, curation or photography, that's fine, but please allow people to have their priorities, especially to those who pretty much built this site with their excellent photo contributions.

And those who spend hours in curation commenting and clicking will help continue to reinforce what you all have built. Both sides help support and progress this wonderful community. At this point i believe it is a matter of each group being fairly, respectfully, and separately recognized for their work and contribution to it, that is all.

This site has changed beyond recognition.

Sure you want to leave Frederic ? You're saying goodbye, but you're here again :D

Bill, no offense, but your contributions to this site will need to mature a bit before you can talk to Frederic and other old members like that. Looks like you have no idea what he did here and how he did it.

Thank you very much Anna, but unlike you I don't weigh my opinion based no what seems to be your "standards" on who can speak to who and why.

It's not about who it's about how. And some opinions must be earned first, by experience... Try to talk condescendingly and disrespectully to real curators, moderators or Ralf. Maybe then it would become clearer...

I don't think I'm being condescending or disrespectful to anyone. Just pointing the obvious on this occasion. If you disagree with the changes on a site you VISIT ( you don't own it ), you either go away without saying anything and never visit again, or you express your opinion and suggestions/thoughts publicly without sounding whiny, and if some of your thoughts are taken under consideration you stick around and see what develops in the near future. If they reject all of your ideas, etc, and as a "result" you still dislike what the site you once liked has become, you simply say a silent goodbye. You can't force people to do what you want. It is their site. Whoever you might be, even if you're the first member of the site, the one with the biggest contribution, lots of photos, sales, whatever, you're still a MEMBER. The owners change and run the site as they see fit.

A bit more than a year ago, in what is called version 2, there was a ranking system that was based on number of pictures, with some additional points for pictures with a lot of views.

I joined 1x in April 2013 and the only ranking system I know was one that rewarded the following "merits": PRO-membership 40 points, published photo 1 point, participation in the weekly theme contest 1 point, update of the personal score 0.01 points ( I may be wrong), 0.1 points per follower (I may be wrong), days of membership 0.01 points (I may be wrong), written tutorial (I don't remember the points). Possibly there were additional merits but I don't remember all. i think the main rewarded merits were mentioned. So, many of these rewarded merits do not represent a photographic performance. The mere fact that a participation in the weekly theme contest (with an image of more or less good quality) and a published photo were equally rewarded was in my eyes not suitable. But nobody complained about that. But now the relaunch of the system whereby some curators who spend a lot of time in improving the site are rewarded appropriate has caused a wave of outrage. I don't really understand.

I agree with you , Paco. One thing is to have "a rank by activity" which is very important to involve people to activity, TO LEARN, in one word to cooperate the improvement of the this site. But I think that people must HAVE A AWARD on it......something must return in order to involve him . Then , as Frederic correctly says under, in his last sentence.......AS IT'S WORLD'S MOST EXCLUSIVE.........we must have a ranking based on published pictures. I am convinct of this and it's speaking a person with only 2 photos published........The level must be and must remain high (even if I see sometimes in the galleries some photo which is deserving more attention.

Your last sentence hits the essence Frédéric.

I pretty much agree with your view, Frédéric. But since 1x is also a "community", I guess people want to be rewarded for their implication in it, besides the fact of having photos published. Do you think that my suggestion (see above) could be a good compromise?

Since joining 1x.com, I have witnessed four different award schemes. Each new scheme was introduced to funnel membership activity in a particular direction. I don't participate in 1x.com because of its award system, but since I am automatically part of it, then not surprisingly, I wish to see an equitable system which doesn't put me at a disadvantage. Not surprisingly, I am dismayed to discover that as a photographer, the new system doesn't take account of my previous contributions to this site (the archive of images probably being 1x's most valuable asset) whereby only 'new' published images count towards the ranking. I was under the impression that 1x.com is a photography site, that through a system of selection, hosted images which are generally considered as outstanding. This supposition was first undermined when it started hosting images which failed to make the curators' cut. Now in order to ensure that everyone is a winner, you can make the top rankings without ever having an image selected. The 1x.com 'Top List' shows that the top 5 have between 31000 and 20000 points, albeit between them they have only had a total of 33 images published. On the other hand my 111 published images attract a measly 104 points. How many people log on to see highly rated 'curators'? As stated above, I don't really care for any 'awards' system, but if I am part of the system, then treat me fairly. I can't see myself posting anything new on this site, because it is no longer the home of photography that I once knew. As a final marketing tip, why not just give people points for logging on.

I could not agree more, Ken.

It seems like the helmsmen have lost course...

An other issue not yet mentioned. This new system is favouring photographers , rather fluent in English. And 'Google translate' is not a solution here. Most people will not use it, since such translations are often deficient. So these photographers will not write comments. Photos on the other do speak the universal language of the image

Ken you have it all wrong. "Top List" is a ranking of CURATION POINTS. If you click "community" then "members", then look at "TOP MEMBERS" this is the list you should be looking at which COMBINES both curator points AND published photo points. You will see that these are users who have both elements very high, a lot of curation points and hundreds of published photos.

Believe me Ben, it doesn't matter which list I look at, with 111 published photos and 300+ followers, I have 104 points

If the award system is supposed to recognize effort and achievement, then I can only conclude that photographers are not particularly valued on 1x.com.

Frederic,Jeff, Kenp i agree. Kan mij niet zo goed uitdrukken in het Engels en wordt al ziek van die ellenlange commentaren van mensen die menen te moeten cureren zich zelf graag horen praten zonder zelf een foto te hebben op FP. Ook het populair willen zijn door iedereen maar naar de mond praten dat ze zo goed zijn.Moet er niet aan denken dat die mensen dadelijk onze serieuse fotografen gaan beoordelen. Sorry maar wilde dit even kwijt

Just received the following comment in curation "Massive degradation of skin tone on the knees- doesn't work for me". I despair, the model is wearing grey stockings!!

you can view your points and others by clicking 'curate' then go to 'curator portal', click 'top list' to see others points and your curator ranking. I would think the inability to post high res images has to do with a membership issue, not the new system. like Ralf stated below, curation is the reason this website exists the way it does and needs to be more emphasized and balanced in conjunction with your amount of published photos.

What do the national rankings have to do with your incentive to post your photos ? No offense, but whoever takes seriously his ranking, his "image", etc etc and lose their "will" to post photos, then he's making a mistake or quite simply he doesn't really love what he's doing ( photography ). You do it because you like it or because you were #2 in your country's rankings here on 1x ? If that caused you to stop posting here, then what should the others with 0 published images do ? Sorry but this kind of attitude makes me take people lightly ( not seriously ) because it reminds me how we used to act back when we were 13yrs old.

Well Bill, nice manipulation of what I actually wrote. 'Incentive to post high res' becomes 'losing the will to post photos'. You might agree that 'awards' and 'incentive' are not worlds apart. Maybe a more approptiate question might be, 'why get involved with these putty medals'.

So you are separating High Res. photos from Photos ? My question stands still despite the correction, high res. or low res, why change your posting behavior ( from high res. to low res. ) due to the new curation & awards system ?

Ben, if Ralf feels that curation is the main reason for this website, then he should amend his link 'top photographers' to 'top armchair critics'. I don't usually submit images for critique, because, whilst there are some outstanding observations and criticism, there are some abysmal, ill-informed observations which can cause you to lose the will to live. Thanks for the tip regarding the link, where I found that I am now the proud owner of about 140 points, ie a point for every image passed by the curators.

This kind of behavior doesn't help. Irony is never a solution, nor a way to express whatever you want to express.

Sorry, it may be a language thing, but I don't see nor intend irony. Ironic is when you compete in a sport, go to the Olympic games and find that all the medals are awrded to the marshalls and stewards.

Yet you keep up with the irony. First calling the curators "armchair critics". Now the stewards and marshals thing.

Bill, that's is not irony but sarcasm. The way I understand it everybody is now a 'curator'. Previously we had a small selct group of appointed official curators who ensured consistency and high standards. There was a time when this site was about photography, recently it seems to have morphed into a site where having an opinion about photography is in the forefront. Now, that is ironic.

Alright let's relax a bit. Ken, as I stated, I believe he wants a balance between published photos and curation points. Both are meant to increase participation within the community. If you want to be highly ranked (top 10) you must be an excellent photographer as well as an active user in the curation process. If you look at the top members list that holds true. The top 15 users are some of the best photographers on here and also active in the duration process. I see no issue with that. I do not mean to argue, simply to clear things up for you.

curation*

Ben, if I am going to be ranked, then I would want to be ranked against my fellow photographers. As part of my photography degree, I did one year of 'visual appreciation', a taught skill. The bulk of public curation on 1x.com is an expression of personal views and tastes, not bona fide informed critique . I don't want to measure my opinions against those of others.

Last comment from me: It's funny how you diss the opinion of your... audience. You keep blaming everybody else but yourself. The members are stupid and don't know about photography ( only you with your degree :-) ). Yet, you compete against the members ( looking for an easy "win" ? or playing with amateurs instead of pros, you should be on the "pro" league like you separate yourself ) Why all the fuss about the ranking is beyond me.

Once again you fail to grasp my point. Curation is a skill just like photography is a skill. Just because somebody choses to join this site, doesn't mean his opinion or view automatically has any gravitas. I can't see where I am blaming anyone for anything, I just disagree with the direction 1x is taking. Finally, if it helps, I started my photography degree, sometime after joining 1x.com, primarily in order to improve my visual appreciation skills. Also nothing to do with 'pro' or 'amateur', since I am retired.

Ken I agree, I believe there should be separate ranking for curators vs. photographers but as of now it looks like the two will be combined for overall member ranking.

So, your opinion has gravity ( actually weight is the word that you were looking for ) while the opinion of the other members is just garbage and should be dismissed. Right ? Sorry, but all I'm seeing is "I" "me" "Myself". Huge ego ?

I fully agree, Ken. All depends what the founders want to achieve, but it seems to me like the message is "1x is the best curation site in the world". There is already the levels for the curators, with the ultimate prize the right to instant publish. Why should they try to mix it with number of publications in the awards? Confusing for me. What they should do is keep members ranking cleanly based on the number of publications, alongside of the curator levels. I would also not try to mix curation and critiques. There is (was?) a separate place for receiving good critiques. Perhaps introducing a specific critics ranking may get that reborn from the ashes.

Bill once again you try and skew what I actually wrote. When I refer to a lack of gravitas (not gravity!) then I don't make a claim about myself nor was I looking for the word 'weight'. A photographers ability is plain for all to see, whereas the curation skills of someone is frequently little more than unfounded opinion.

Kenp has made some good points with solid argumentation yet you insist on trying to devalue his opinion by talking about his ego, which is fairly irrelevant in the whole discussion. With the new awards I've risen in ranking above a number of photographers whore are significantly more experienced and skilled than I can hope to become in the foreseeable future and that doesn't feel right to me at all.

Thanks for the great feedback, however I have to disagree, because I think that the people on the top members list are all excellent photographers. Like you say 1x is about great photos and in order to find them we need help from members in curation, which means that curation is a very very important part of 1x and what makes this site stand out against the buddy-voting sites.

Second post here that makes me feel like the user is caring more for his "personal ranking" than what he does. Judging by the avatar I take it you're not a teenager or youngster either. An already famous photographer on 1x has so many followers and his name circulates all over the site & probably the whole internet in various ways, no need to be 'advertised" on any ranking or whatever that might be. You're not forced to curate, you can simply keep on posting photos like you used to do. I'm sure that there'll be at least a few adjustments to the scoring formula and also perhaps some new additions, and perhaps the rankings might get separated ( Photographers rankings - Curator rankings ). If you don't want to judge a specific photo, use the "Curator portal" button, and then navigate to another section of the site ( e.g. New Photos ), then browse to Curation from the COMMUNITY menu and you'll find yourself at another photo to judge/vote on. Curation is a very nice feature of the site as it works both ways... you can help other photographers develop their skills, and the photographers can see what their peers think. There are several other things that can benefit or even arise from the curation feature, but it's kind of off-topic so I won't post them here :-)

I disagree, Ralf. You're valuing mostly quantity of votes. These have such a big impact for a prolific voter, that it overshadows all the other quality measures. An example is my countries ranking. No. 1 has 2 publications and is a L5 curator with one level 1 endorsement. He is above someone with 142 publications and L2 curator.

Hah, my paragraphs turned to a wall of words.

you can use
for new lines here Abdulmohsen

For those, who don't weak italian it is difficult to understand you :-) Why not use translate.google.com instead? Easier that one person does, than nearly all others, So english is the best compromise to all?

I agree here Bella. A combination of both scoring systems I think would please everyone. A scoring system that compares us to the official curators would make users try to 'guess' whether they would be chosen for the front page or not rather than voting through their own eyes, I do not think that was the intention of member curation. We certainly need a separate or updated version of the current member ranking system that weighs published photos much heavier as Hans stated. I think curation points should have little to do with member ranking, still a factor but not as much as it is now. Also as Hans stated, please award all comments and photos with the current reward value since this system took effect, published photos and curation comments. To those of you saying it is currently unfair in favor of those who can click fast and spend hours in front of the computer this is not true. There are only so many photos to curate every day, it takes only a small amount of time each day to go through each batch. Typically about 400 points or so is the most you can get from just clicking in a single day, certainly no more than 500. But this will only get users so far as Bill stated many will get stuck at level 5 because they will not put in the time or effort to get the required awarded comments. I also see the other side of the coin where non English speakers will not be able to advance as well and I feel for them on that matter but we need to use a single language. I think an interesting statistic to provide for users that may impact ranking is their AVERAGE comment score (also taking into account how many comments they have made). So user x has made 85 comments with an average rating of 4.6 and user y has made 100 comments but only an average rating of 3.8, they would get either a lower score or ranking. This would put even more emphasis on making good comments. Or if it doesn't impact score or rank I still think it would be nice to be displayed for each user on their own 'feedback' page. Thank you.

But don't you see the danger of "two" groups? A wise balanced combination of many aspects might be most fair to all, without separating community. I see it :"oh, let them curate and be top ranked, we (here) successful photographers are the true elite, who else cares"?
If combined the photographers are motivated to participate more, what not all do, and the active members are appreciated?

So we have a system of judges judging the judges rather than the images. Of course everyone has an opinion, doesn't mean that it has any substance or weight. If you want to limit the points to photos accepted after Feb 2014, then why not delete all those awarded prior to that date?

I think you misunderstood something. The new system rewards a published photo with 50 points. My proposal was to increase the 50 points to 1000 points (at least for the photos which got published after the relaunch). And to come back to the issue of commenting: In the old system there was hardly a feedback for the photographer in the time span between upload and publishing. And after publishing the comments were (and still are) primarily limited to very short comments like "great" or something else. Rejected photos were seldom commented and have hardly been recognized. Now, after the relaunch the photographer gets a more detailed opinion about his work (at least in some cases, many photos go trough the member curation without any comment). If this comment is useful for you or not, is entirely up to you. I think when you display your photos at an exhibition you will be pleased when a visitor and potential buyer gives his opinion on the quality of your images. And a potential buyer is not necessarily a good photographer. It's sufficient that he likes the image, for whatever reason. So, why ignore the opinions of the community members? They may be potential buyers, too.

You do realize that what you're saying sounds bitter and isn't entirely true, right ? While some people may have 0 published photos, they may have excellent technical knowledge and good ideas. A good photographer isn't necessarily a good judge. And the opposite, a good judge isn't necessarily a good photographer. Plus, there are several excellent captured and edited photos that have and are getting rejected simply because similar photos have been published too many times before and because they have no "story/mood" to tell. Take the "dock, long exposured milky water" theme. I've seen plenty of perfectly or nearly perfectly executed photos of that theme in curation but not getting published because they were too common and had no "foreground interest" to deem them publishable here. The "judges" who simply click reject/accept at blazingly fast speeds will get to the bottom of the list as soon as more people start writing their thoughts and ideas like some people do already. What should be done is a filtering in this case, to separate the ones laying out their opinion and suggestions in the Curate section from the ones just clicking away all the time. And ideally, since some people would like to post more often but they can't because of limited free time or whatever, another good idea would be implementing a software script checking their "Accept to Published photos" ratio. If for example their accept/reject votes are the same with the Curator's outcome regarding the corresponding photos they voted on, they should get some additional weight in contrast to the people who just vote Accept/reject "randomly" just to reach level 5 and then just stick there like they should because they make no useful comments at all and they're just abusing their way up the "ladder".

Bill, by your own definition "A good photographer isn't necessarily a good judge. And the opposite, a good judge isn't necessarily a good photographer." A good photographer is a good judge, else he would never be a good photographer. Now the curators are busy monitoring and judging the public curators. The lunatics have taken over the asylum!

yep, that should be changed or the impact can be aroused, that former work is not appreciated. The opposite is true of course!

You never hear of an audience going to a theatre in order to listen to a theatre critic do you?

this comparison dear Ken is not hitting the point. This is - for most of us - not only a theatre of good images, but a platform, that is better visited and seen (to the benefit of the images) if it is vivid. And this deserves appreciation too.
Please i share your point of view, that photographers are leveled down without any good reason, but to appreciate the curators who comment and by that help a lot. That needs some tuning in my opinion. But on the other and, would be a more increased participation of those who took benefit from this system (the intense published photographers) be kind too. For the sake of the platform. Don't you think so?

I apologize my friend Walde, I used the same words like you...I did not see your comment as I was writing mine...:) Agree with you...

Agree with you Walde!

Agree with Walde!!

We might add some additional ways to gain points in the new awards system =)

I agree

I agree with Adrian - "top photographers" should be judged on the quality of their images. A good curator has different qualities - the ability to analyse an image and offer constructive criticism. If it's necessary to have rankings, why not have separate lists for published photographers and constructive curators?

I agree also.

Fully agree with Adrian and Linda.

Totally agree with Adrian.

Adding my vote here

I fully agree with Adrian.

Yes :)

I agree,yes

I'm with Thomas on this. I love 1x for the photography and top notch photographers here.

I agree with this also. The new curating system can be fun and interesting, but I would rather see rankings based on photography rather then being able to spend a lot of time curating photos.

I agree, while curating can be helpful, needed, and can be fun - it is NOT the main thing this site is for. there is too much weight put on curating now. there are excellent photographers who do not enjoy writing long elaborates, and they will lose their positions because of that. separate top photogs and top curators - and it will get back to right balance. Cheers!

curating and photographing are indeed 2 very different option, skills, … Ideal is to separate them. If you want to mix them, then I also feel in the last version of the ranking, there is at least, for the moment, a wrong balance between both aspects. How important curating is for the site, how much you want to appreciate the efforts made by the people helping the community as a whole … I feel for the outside world visitors come and take a look to the site , not to find good carat ors, but good photographers and first of all good images. I don't know if people look at those ranking … but anyway … photographers with a lot of selected images should n't end at the bottom of the list just because they prefer shooting than curating, or don't mind about looking to others work. To complete the reply … for Frédéric ... I sincerely think most people with more than 10000 curation did not make them after the system started. Those are most people who already participated in the curate zone long time before it was highlighted by the last evolution. What changed is that now they are more pushed to also write comments with their vote, and that it is visible for the others who does a lot of member curating.

I agree! This is not a very fair system. While I agree that a lot of the top curators are good photographers too, not ALL members curating are contributing to the site as passionate photographers. It's just too easy to rack up points by clicking on the PUBLISH/REJECT button. Only today, I've spent a good part of my afternoon trying to bring my points up and then I realized how ridiculous this was! While I realize the importance of the curation process and truly appreciate that you've incorporated all members as part of the process, it's not why I joined this site. I hope that the moderators re-think this new process and come up with a solution that is equitable to those who are working to make this site the prestigious photography group that it is.

At the very least, if this system will continue on, it would be nice for those who have had published photos in the past get extra points to up their ranking once again. It's just a bit unfair that one's ranking slips because they have not curated as much as the person who has a lot of curation points but not even one published photo.

As Piet mentioned, the outsie world is coming to 1x to see great photos and top photographers and not to see great comment efforts. I hope 1x would still be primarily a photos site, honouring his best photographers.

I agree at all. Its a photography site. And at the same time, it would be great to see a more increased participation of those who took benefit from this system (the intense published photographers) . This would be an appreciation to those, who produce the traffic here that makes the images even more popular.
But again, i agree, the actual state of evaluation seems to need tweaking. The active volunteers are leveled down as well as many successful photographers. That can't be.