Hello,

I just posted it in Support, but perhaps it should be here, as support may deal with more technical issues, and not with creative one. So, I post it here in hope it goes on front of the more proper eyes. sorry for cross-posting. Thanks!

 

====

 

Hello,

I just want to share my personal opinion, nothing more. Maybe curators and crew can look into that - if they agree with me.

 

I used to absolutely love selected by curators images. I found many of my photos rejected - but it was to be expected on site like this. the quality of accepted images was very consistent and outstanding.

 

Well, I find it is no more as good as before. Something changed. Images which would be firmly rejected before - are sneaking through, lowering overall impression of the site, while some fantastic images are chopped down. Surely it has to do with who is doing the curation process, perhaps you, guys on top of this ladder, could have another look at images accepted in last couple of months and you would notice the trend I am mentioning.

 

I also did a test (surely inconclusive and a bit objective, as I did it with my photos. I submitted some photos which I consider very good, and which would have a chance of being accepted before. They were rejected. And then - I submitted an image which I personally think is a bit cheesy, feeble and a bit theatrical (actually taken for a joke) - I would never accept such work on photo competition I would be a member of jury. and it got accepted!!! Perhaps this was even more proof of my point that better images which got rejected.

 

what I say is not personal and is not about my images. I just see "new photos" often, and sometimes I wonder - what the heck goes wrong with selection process. It was about uniqueness and creativity before. It still is, but mannerism and cliché found their way in. And this is sad to see.

 

Of course I am not a crew or curator here and I don't have much say on this site. But having 40 years of experience, diploma in arts, my Fellowship in RPS and OPS, and being a juror in some really big photo competitions gave me enough "sharp eye" to notice such changes.

 

I strongly hope this will not get down to level of other popular photo sites. that would be an end of 1X as I see it.

 

Cheers to all

Derek

 

Hi, Derek, first let me tell you that I admire your work, especially the portraits, a genre that in my opinion is a very difficult one. Before I left the tutorial team I had the chance to accompany your tutorial about the body paint image with your model Koko Kitty. I was very impressed of the making of, from the planning of the process and the execution of the shooting.

 

Having said this, I strolled through your photos to have a look which images were published and which were not. And I had a look at the popularity index which says something about the fact how the 1x-members evaluate the images. My feeling is that the popularity index depends very much on randomness. The about 50 members who vote on your image before an official curator says publish or reject, are NOT REPRESENTATIVE, 50 votes are definitely too little. But it is not practicable to collect a representative number of votes (e.g. 500). That would lead to a unacceptable curation process time.

 

To verify the randomness of the member curation, you can make a test: Upload the same image twice in a time interval of say 2-3 months, it's possible that you get one time 40% popularity and the other time 65%.

 

I think that many of the existing photo-sites suffer from the increasing possibility for photographers to present their work. In times where photographs are uploaded tsunami-like on facebook, flickr, many different online-magazines and other, more buddy affected photography-sites, it's difficult even for 1x to avoid member loss. Member loss can lead to pressure of costs, to avoid this the attractiveness for joining the site must be increased especially for joining (or staying) as a paying member. I think basically 1x in on the right way, the most important issue is the careful selection of published photos, the limitation of the numbers of published photos and the diversity of the published photos.

 

I'm in line with your feeling that the recently published photos include outstanding, excellent photos but also some images that were surely not published 2 or 3 years ago. Especially in genre architecture and abstract I notice some publications I'm very surprised of. Repetitive motives without great new creativity from always the same authors. While other more creative images are rejected. But this is my personal point of view and raises no claim to universal validity.

 

Hope that 1x will succeed in the future with many happy (paying) members, modest number of published photos and an outstanding reputation.

 

That's it for the moment.

 

Cheers, Hans-Martin

Hi Derek and Hans Martin,

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

1x is unique in the regard that the submitted photos are reviewed be actual human beings, there are no computer algorithms or point system that decides which photos that are getting published.

 

We are of course working hard on maintaining the high level in the 1x gallery. To do this we are dependent on our members and curators. We have high confidence in our team of curators and they are very knowledgeable in their specific fields of photography.

 

We will keep the matters you have mentioned in mind. Once again, thank you for giving us this input. It's very valuable for us to know how the members experience the photos featured in the gallery.

 

Kind regards

Thomas

Thank you for your comment, Hans-Martin. I am glad to see what you write, and to know it is not only me getting crazy - but that you also see some lesser quality images sneaking through. Yes, it often is architecture. But also other genres.

What I find interesting is that there are quite a few photos showing mannerism, which now get accepted.

For example (just one example of several) - technique of grunging images - so popular a few years ago and now - thankfully - less popular. As many good techniques - it gets seriously overused. some photographers think that if they treat an average photo with digital noise, add some scratches and stains - they will have immediately a piece of art. And more the noise, the better. Sometimes it is hard to really see the photo (maybe it actually is a good thing sometimes, ha ha).

 

Well, they can think that as they represent different level of skills, sometimes just getting through a fascination with a particular technique - but it is curator's role here (or a judge's on a photo competition) to use his/her professional knowledge and see if the image really goes behind trickery or is just that. And I say - lately on 1X trickery and cliché sometimes wins.

 

You are right about randomness of voting process - I did tests too and they were super different, just as you say. But I don't pay that much attention to it, it is just indication. Recently I had over 80% yes votes on an image, and my photo was rejected, for example.

 

Anyway, I stay a paid member because I like being part of something extraordinary. I dropped my membership of 500pix, and tested pixoto (really, really sad voting process leading to selection of often terrible images). So far 1X is still the best. but I hope it will adhere to the high standards we are used to. Otherwise it will lose its appeal.

 

Thank you for your kind comments on my photos. Cheers!

Derek

 

Derek, rest assured that our plan is to make 1x even more exclusive than it is today, not the other way around. With all these different sites you mention and many other like them, the need for a place for quality photography and curation is bigger than ever. We are going to take several different steps to make 1x even more exclusive and stand out more from these other sites.

 

That's great to hear, Ralf. I stopped my (rather small) activity on several other sites after short test phases. Let me underline my wishes that I wrote in my post above: Hope that 1x will succeed in the future with many happy (paying) members, modest number of published photos and an outstanding reputation.

 

Cheers, Hans-Martin

 

That will be FANTASTIC! Looking forward to see all improvements.

1X is a shelter from avalanche of snapshots :-)

 

Hi Derek,

although I do not have your expertise I have noticed the same as have other members. I had an opinion about this same subject matter in another blog. How clever of you to have entered a cheesy photograph to proof your point and get it published! Congratulations on that....

I am hoping with you that 1x will return to it's old glory! I have been with this site for almost 6 years and maybe after a while it all starts looking the same. Even for myself the last picture of mine that was published is not bad, but it would have never been considered front page quality let's say a year ago.

Something definitely has changed, I see all kind of different butterflies etc., that would have been rejected even 6 month ago, not because they were not the perfect quality (some of them are downright magical) but because the constant repetition was not tolerated then. What made it to the front page had to be fresh,new and unique at all times. Let's hope it will be like it used to be some time in the near future.

Good light to you,

Antje

 

Hi Anja,

 

Speaking of butterflies they are very rarely published even today, and considering the amount of butterflies uploaded, only a tiny fraction are being published. Some really exceptional ones might be published from time to time even though a lot have been published before. It's natural that everything feels more fresh and unique in the beginning of something. After 8 years it's not so strange that some themes are repeated, especially themes which photographers like a lot. Having said that, we will do our best to make 1x more exclusive and more varied, bringing in new curators with a fresh perspective and also try to invite more talented photographers.

 

Good light, Ralf

Hello Ralf,

thank you for your reply! I do believe that things might improve because you are listening to those who are voicing concerns. I do hope that this site will be restored to its former glory before too long. Wishing you much success with that,

Antje

Thank you, Antje, for commenting on my post.

Well, it looks like you are right in your second comment. Ralf and his team are listening and monitoring for comments like ours. That is a very good sign, and proves this site is alive. Nothing worst like receiving only automated responses which are not addressing your concerns, like it happened to me several times on another site. So, I trust 1X will stand strong in art photography community for a long time.

 

It is good that we voiced our concerns. and it is good to see our comments were noted and treated seriously.

I personally think such periods of lesser perfection are natural, perhaps even only because usually the standard is so high, that it is very hard to keep it so hard constantly. So, I am glad to hear Ralf's assurance that plans are to get 1X to even higher levels, and I am glad to see a dialogue between members and management.

 

Cheers to all!

Derek

Well, this was written some 20 days ago. Unfortunately I still see under-qualified photos sneaking in. Dear curators - sharpen your knifes, please! An image which is not original, and does not show its subject in an original or new way, being just one of hundreds of images like that I've seen in last year or two - should NOT be included. C'mon. Someone does let stuff like that go through cracks, and it was never like that before.

 

Usually what got published would be good enough to be among winners of any prestigious international photo competition. But now - some of accepted images would not be even accepted as finalists or let into first round of judging.

Hi, Derek,

 

you mention a very important issue. I'm not familiar with the detailed rules of curation (means: is every single curator authorized to decide about "publish" or "reject" or are there (e.g. ) three "publish"-votes necessary to publish the image?

I know from another website that their judging process is characterized by a majority voting of the curators.

 

To maintain the top-class of published images on the frontpage of 1x it is essential to have a keen eye on all uploaded images if they meet the standards of a world-class photo even at the risk of publishing only 20-30 images per day (actually there are about 35-40 images published daily), last year I counted between 50 and 60 daily.

 

And one issue should be urgently avoided. One should not get the impression, that curators prefer some of their "buddies" that they know not only from 1x but also from other sites (like 500px or so). Curation should take place anonymous (which is not the case with 1x I was told some time ago).

 

And another issue that I would like to mention is the following: It is extremely difficult to sell photography. To everybody who makes / or has made another experience: "Chapeau !" The photographs or algorithmic artworks that I create are not born on one day, partly it takes some months until a work is finished. Again and again changes are tried out and intermediate stage results are deleted.

 

When I have a look at some members who upload photos daily, partly more than one image daily then photography is devaluated in the eyes of potential customers because they can get the impression that it takes no great effort to produce a world class photo.

 

There is a lot to do !

 

Cheers, Hans-Martin

I don't agree,

If you have photographs every day or several times a day, that does not mean that the work has not been rigorous.

Throughout a year, I work on a lot of pictures , every day I work on my pictures and sometimes over a week for a photo.

So I have many photos in stock and if I decide to add a part of a stock finished every day or twice a day , this does not mean that the work was sloppy .

 

I find you both very hard with the work of photographers who have the chance to have their photos published here.

When I read you

curators make bad choices and photographs published are bad.

 

Regards,

 

Delphine

 

Indeed, this probably happened at 1x. There are photos of photographers that are always be published. Can you call it buddie curation?

 

 

Yes, there are some photographers who get a lot of photos published, but this is mainly because they upload a lot. Anonymous curation is unfortunately impossible because the curators have to see a history of uploads to make sure that the same photo is not uploaded twice. That history will give away who the photographer is.

 

Ralf, are you saying that if the same photo is uploaded twice (revised, maybe, and with a new title) it won't be considered at all? If so, why--? I think a lot of us tinker with images, trying to improve them, and then hoping that they'll get a fresh glance from the curators. Isn't this partly what the critique section is for? Thank you, Ralf! -Terri

Also, can anyone tell me, please, what next week's theme is? I have a period ("."). I'm pretty sure it's not that. :)

... you got a point there Terri :)

 

Will find out about the Weekly Theme !!

 

al

Head Moderator

Thank you, Al. Sorry for all the bother! :)

Hi everyone,

 

Never fear, Weekly theme will soon be back in an updated form. A new theme will soon be announced.

 

Kind regards

Thomas

I do agree that of late, the selections made by the curators are not up to the high standards that 1x had established years ago.

I am sure much of this depends on the volume and the quality of work that is submitted.

I would rather see one "sublime" photograph selected each day than a number of

mediocre photographs that are not up to the 1x tradition.

 

best regards,

Jane

I have to agree with the general standard falling over the past couple of months. I used to be quite active on 1x a couple of years ago, and after a period of inactivity I returned about 6 months ago. Perhaps when I initially discovered 1x everything published was way beyond my own photographic skills that I considered all of the images sublime.

 

Today it is not like this for me anymore. But for two reasons: one is that I have acquired a bit more experience so I see images in a different light but the other reason is that apart from subjective viewing, objectively the quality of images is not the same.

 

Having said this, there are some things that I feel are improved. One is that there is more spontaneity in the images chosen, and less perfection required. For me this is not a fault… I have an article in mind for a blog and will go into this point more in depth later on.

 

Also, I see more work of new photographers (that have just joined up). There may be some images that make me wonder… actually some are a stimulus for me, because I think, well.. if they published THAT, I’ve got a chance myself to be published one day! But on the other hand when I see images like the following: https://1x.com/photo/985646/all:user:571599

I can only bow my head in reverence. It was published a couple of days ago…

 

As I write quite a few curation comments I have often wondered about the actual process of choosing images for publication. Here it emerges that an image is only viewed by about 50 people before passing to another level of curation. I definitely think this is not enough views. And I am wondering how the mechanics would change if this was increased to 250 people, let’s say…

 

I’m not sure how much written curation actually goes on: it takes time to write a curated comment on a photo and it’s far quicker just to press the PUBLISH/REJECT buttons, so I’m not sure how much difference it would make to leave photos on a bit longer. Curated photos need to be reviewed by the senior curators, I understand this, but if a photo just gets looked at and judged with publish/reject buttons, surely this is just an automatic process of gathering statistics. Please excuse my naivety… there will be reasons for the way you do things no doubt. I don’t know how many images are uploaded daily to this site, nor how many people are viewing at a given time… (I actually would be curious to know).

 

But I agree with the general point of view expressed in this forum.

 

Please post this in a new thread:

 

Undesired cropping

 

Hi, I have been having some problems with viewing photos that are cut off at the tops or at the sides. Particularly in critique and curation.

 

I first noticed it with one of my own photographs and then I commented on two images in critique that they were not cropped very well!!! After reopening them to read comments from the photographers I then saw the photographs as they were supposed to be.

 

Other times I find it difficult to see all of the writing in the Info section. Are there technical problems? Or have systems changed and I need to press a different button???

 

Many thanks, Lyn

Hi Lyn

 

Will answer all your question, try to go in order so all will be answered.`

 

The images being published are all of high quality, do not feel there has been a decrease. This is a subjective statement and giving my opinion. I have been in photography a long time and participated in judging major international contest, PSA just to name one, a lot goes into selecting and our Curators are doing fine.

 

If you have increased your photographic skills/technique/etc, it would make sense that you would feel your images are closer to the published, congratulations. I hope you keep improving, being active making images and looking at lots of images will raise your level every time.

 

The Official Curators have always tried presenting a varied subject/look of images and the way (timing) they are publish, has a logical reason. It makes a difference not only the quality but how they are group and presented. This might give you the impression regarding the "spontaneity" part.

 

I'm sure the image you pointed out and praised is much appreciated by the member. Generally, I would delete the link since you need permission from the member for placing a link to his work. In this case, you are making a good point, in good faith and praising the member. It is a well thought out and impressive image, love it personally.

 

Regarding the number of views, it has varied over time and time of year. At this point (Summer which is slow always) would take too long for an image to reach 250 votes. I don't think we have ever gone that high. You will see a change in the number of views before being rejected or published.

 

Lyn, I don't have the stats for the number of images submitted for curation daily but can assure you are a lot. Official Curators do have to work hard. Regarding the actual process at the Official Curator's level, can't help you there. Only they know the exact process, I could only guess and would be improper/unfair to make any statements. Both Curation Comments by members and vote/reject percentages, play a role.

 

The main change I have seen in the Curation of images has to do with the increase in Official Curators, we have a larger team with varied areas of expertise, Jef out Head of the curating team is doing a superb job and has always been reachable to me, at times I have question from members or things that come up needing clarification, always get a quick answer.

 

btw There are several threads on the Curation Process which Ralf has addressed, particularly the one regarding the number of views before decisions are made, might want to look back in the threads.

 

Always glad to receive input from members and appreciate your efforts

 

al

Head Moderator

 

Hi Lyn

 

I am not aware of any technical problems at this time. The only that has been brought up is the banner at the top of page which cuts a small part of the image.

 

If encountered, just need to click on the X at the top right corner and will be gone.

 

al

Head Moderator

Hi Lyn,

The problems with the cropping may be related to your browser. Please contact me on [email protected] if it still doesn't work.

 

Kind regards

Thomas

 

For those who are interested in the number of member votes before the decision of an official curator:

 

My image was rejected after 27 member votes. Popularity-Index 29%, the worst value that one of my images ever received. Must be real bullshit ! However, I saw similar images that got published may be due to another authorship.

 

https://1x.com/photo/988980/

 

Best Regards,

Hans-Martin

Re Curation Process:

 

Thanks Al for your lengthy answer to my thread....

I left myself open when I talked of subjectivity and objectivity! So I guess I deserved your comments, lol!

 

But there are various people who have the same impression... various people of differing levels. I count myself among the humble beginners, but when you have experienced professional photographers and much better photographers than me with the same impressions it makes me think there must be something we are all perceiving as a lowering of quality in the published photos in recent times.

 

Anyway, I don't want to be a grizzler! I realize how difficult it must be to run a site like this and I appreciate all of the benefits of the work done behind the scenes... if you look at things in the vaster scale of time, in a project such as 1x there will always be ups and downs and changes, this is inevitable.

 

The fact that 1x allows people to make criticisms and to express their own views, in my mind is indicative of openmindedness. I also think that the general cameraderie that goes on among photographers of such different levels... is in itself pretty amazing.

Hi Hans

 

You are entitled to your opinion but best to leave the "Must be real BS" out of the comment.

 

Regarding something similar being published, Similar is different and different is not the same. I went down the page a long ways and found two which were similar as far as being white high key. That is were the similarity ended.

 

Your link shows a good image and I'm surprised at the low acceptance by the general membership. I find images which are different showing high creativity in its composition, will get that type response at times.

 

Being published because authorship is not the case. I get turned down as many as you do and see similar as far as subject. Examining the published compared to my entry, always find some element making that one image a good pick over mine but do feel the same reaction as you have, its human nature.

 

al

Head Moderator

Hi Al,

 

if you give a short explanation how to erase the BS I will do it as soon as possible. In my playlist "Minimalism" that can be found in the 1X-blogs (select #photos and scroll down two rows) there are some images at the end of the list (some of them with parts of human beings, hands, head and so on) and one image with a diagonal line that starts on the lower left border and extends to the middle of the right half of the image. And one image with a handrail of a staircase.

 

I uploaded two images of this high key kind (one is still in curation but also with a horrible member acceptance of about 30%) because I saw no high key image published during the last months. Therefore I thought that this could be the right time to show something like that.

 

Creating good abstract images is harder than it seems to be. In my opinion there were some images published in that category during the last months with considerable lesser quality than my rejected image (however, that reflects only my personal subjective opinion). But with significant higher acceptance by the members. Probably the member voting is also affected by buddy voting. I would regret this if the curators judge in different ways depending on a bad acceptance or a good acceptance by the members.

 

Well, I don't complain about the rejection, the image will find its lovers independent if its published by 1x or not.

 

Cheers, Hans-Martin

Hi Hans

 

The voting for the curation is anonymous, you can tell the author after your vote is casted. Popularity will not come into play.

 

There are few photographers with such distinctive style, easy to tell who they are, personally know few of those.

 

Don't worry about the BS, you were only stressing a point. Again the one you referred was (to me) appealing and high quality, should have had a much higher acceptance ratio.

 

I will check for you regarding the low number of votes and get back. As far as I know, we are waiting for the fifty votes for rejecting or not,

 

al

Head Moderator

Hi Al,

You wrote: "As far I know, we are waiting for the fifty votes for rejected or not". However, when I look at the statistics of my photos for the last six month - with 21 uploaded photos - most of them were published and rejected before they reached 50 votes:

17 times 30-50 votes

4 times 50-67 votes

 

My last upload got 31 votes after les than 24 hours online and then went to the official curators.

 

Cheers, Susanne

I hope these votes, while helpful - don't have too much influence over final curators' decision. Why? I uploaded an image twice. first time had acceptance of 77%, second time - after i actually IMPROVED it - around 40%. so, it clearly is a bit random. with the low number of voting it is NOT a reliable level indicator, depending too much on personal preferences of these few people voting, i guess.

By the way - even with 77% my photo was rejected, which kind of proves that voting does not make curators always "go for it".

 

To end this note i need to say that I am sure authorship does not matter with curating. curators and crew are way too professional and good photographers to do such thing. it is easy to see - one can look at portfolio of any of curators or crew, and see number of not-published images, showing these people don't get special "favours" at all.

 

While it was me who started this thread with observation that overall level went down (and i still see it), but as it was wisely said in this thread - it is unavoidable that site like this would have its ups and downs over a longer period of time. and even with some images not deserving in my opinion their publishing - 1X still is fun and inspiration, a heck of a good art photo site, and will keep its superiority for years to come. I also made some friends through 1X, and it is a fine "added value" to it. (I just agree with another point expressed in this thread that it would be better to publish less, rather than giving up to flood of lower quality submissions).

 

my original comment was written just because i believe 1X to be so much better from other photo sites that I care it does not drop even 1 inch.

 

Regards and thanks for all comments in this thread!

Cheers

Derek

 

Hi Derek

 

I think I've got you beat with a high percentage image not making it !!! Got three over 80% .. none made it.

 

In each case, there was a similar image, two were birds (same species) while the other a whale and a boat, Comparing mine to the ones chosen, I have to agree they were a little better in two of the cases and on the whale image much better. Great call by the Official Curators.

 

The member voting does count and can be a deciding factor in some images being published or not Same goes with the Curation Comments, could help the Official Curators seeing something different.

 

Believe me, Crew Members do not get any special treatment at all when it comes to being published.

 

I can assure you the high quality of all published images is not going to decline in any way, we keep trying to push the bar higher !!

 

btw will report on numbers as soon as I get an answer from the Head Curator.

 

al

Head Moderator

Got word from Jef (Head Curator) regarding the number of votes before making a decision.

 

During the Summer, all the sites seem to slow down and ours is no different. If we wait for fifty votes before making a decision, the image would be in curation too long. At times they wait for seventy.

 

The number of votes Official Curators use before deciding will vary according need. At this time, you can expect about thirty votes to be the number.

 

al

Head Moderator

 

Thanks for your answer, Al.

 

It inspired me to some observations.

 

Before last summer the curators made their decision after 100 votes. During the summer it went down to fifty. After the summer it didn't go up to 100, but from your answer I gather that fifty votes became the criteria. And now in the summer it is thirty votes. It is a sensible decision, but it would have been so nice if the members had been informed about it. Then we know what is going on.

 

This lowering of the member voting before the curators make their decision to fifty and thirty in summer, made me wonder if there are less members who cast their vote than let's say some fifteen months ago. Are they losing interest? And if so, is there a relation with the complaint that the popular vote is not translated into a curator's vote? Could it be that members are disappointed because their voting doesn't count?

 

I am very much favour that the curators make their own decisions. But perhaps there could be a way to give the members the feeling that their voting matters by showing which photos they favour most? Could the be a tap in the Community chapter with a daily top ten of the member votes?

 

 

Hi, Susanne,

 

if you want something like that I recommend to move to 500px. I know many photographers who instantly would leave 1X if those things were implemented here.

 

Apparently, however, some other 1X-members like this, as it could be seen in the former weekly theme.

 

It's up to the management to make smart decisions in that issue.

 

Independent, neutral, and competent curator decisions about publishing images in the 1X-gallery is the precondition for a uniquely positioned company in this highly competitive market.

 

Cheers, Hans-Martin

 

Hi Hans,

 

I think you misread part of my entry.

 

I am absolutely NOT in favour of the 500px way.

 

I am like you - and as I wrote - very much in favour of - in your words: " Independent, neutral, and competent curator decisions about publishing images in the 1X-gallery".

 

I suggested an extra page under the Community tap, giving - as I wrote - members the feeling that their voting matters by showing which photos they favour most.

 

Cheers, Susanne

Hi Susanne, Hans

 

You made a good suggestion and we always take everything into consideration.

 

Will pass it up the line. As you mentioned, we like our our basic structure but there is always room for adjustments.

 

al

Head Moderator

We are happy for all suggestions we get.

I agree that it's important that all members feel that their influence count. Members already have a great influence in which photos are being shown on the front page, since the popularity page is showing the photos with most views and comments.

 

Hi Susanne,

Greetings..

 

Just sharing here some of my own thoughts.

 

I have been a member here for over six years and have seen many different types of member voting systems implemented. At times, the systems changed based on the recommendations of the members and became more functional. Those systems also included the ability to leave comments, and some were based on check off lists, others more open ended.

 

I voted occasionally, but not frequently as I had a preference to participate in other parts of the site. When I spoke to those who did vote they related that for them they found it worthwhile to see what type of work was being submitted - (genre/quality etc). Also, they could learn what types of photos were more likely to be published. So their participation was helpful to them. They did not receive any reward for voting or leaving a comment.

 

The point I want to make is that it benefited them, to see a wide array of photos behind the scenes so to speak. 1x did not have popularity ratings - at least none that I am aware of that were visible to members. What you wrote to a member was private and seen only by the photographer/ and the Curators.

 

While the voting system has changed over many times, one thing has always remained constant and it is related to the quest for excellence. This excellence appears to include creating an image which is unusual, a bit different, something that stands out, and something that at times is sublime in its nature.

 

What has made 1x stand out is what you and Hans have pointed out - which is that each image is chosen by a skilled Curator for the Front Page. I believe that it has always been true that the Curators will 'consider' member voting.

 

They have even come to the forums and have explained a number of times that they have been given the authority to make independent decisions. Yet, if they have a question in their own minds of - yes/no - it is good that they have the members thoughts to look at. So to some degree he members votes are important and will be 'considered' This appears to me to be at the discretion of the Curator. Also, I am under the impression that Curators speak to each other and offer advice to each other should they want it.

 

Since the emphasis here at 1x is on Curated photography - iMHO identifying and posting popularity ratings on some photos would seem to me to be in conflict with the actual choices made by the Official Curators. Perhaps equally important is the underlying philosophical goal which is to honor and reward excellence, not popularity.

 

Having said that I would have to add one more thing. I do think popularity is important at 1x, but not necessarily as it relates to one's photos. What I have found is that those people who are popular are the ones who participate in community affairs. Ie critique, leaving comments, posting photos to groups, initiating and participating in interesting forum discussions, and volunteering as you have already mentioned you do. One does not need to see these names because we all get to know after a short time who those people are.

 

Even though I may not agree with you, my thinking is that all ideas are worthy of consideration as it shows an interest in the site and your fellow members.

 

All my best,

Phyllis

PS. Sorry for the long post. :)

 

 

Hi Lyn,

 

As founder of this site I can assure you that the quality level has not changed. In fact it has been raised every year since the start of the site. This is easy to prove with simple statistics. In the first year 70% of all uploads were published and the quality level was much lower than today. Next year 30% were published and the quality level was a little higher. Today only 5-10% are published and the quality level is much higher than it was then.

 

I've heard this argument that the quality level is decreasing now and again in the entire 8 years of life span of 1x. If that was true and the quality level is constantly falling it would be extremely low by now, which it is obviously not. I think this perceived feeling of quality going that has a lot to do with that your own photographic eye is evolving and after a while you start recognizing various subjects and they don't seem so original anymore.

 

Good light, Ralf

I think this perceived feeling of quality going that has a lot to do with that your own photographic eye is evolving and after a while you start recognizing various subjects and they don't seem so original anymore.

 

Good light, Ralf

 

Hello Ralf,

 

I can definitely relate to what you have written here. There are times when I have looked only at published photos and it has been too much... ie. too much of a good thing. You can also become a bit blasè if you are not careful.

By the fact there is so much quality you risk taking it for granted or you pass it by without pondering upon it.

 

This is something that doesn't happen so easily in an art gallery. The images exhibited are limited and you ponder and analyze them. I think this is an important process of appreciation.

 

On a site like this, and in general the society we live in, you can lose perspective of what goes into a single photograph.

 

Lately I prefer to stick with curation and Weekly Themes where there is a differing of levels... in this way an excellent photo really stands out and I tend to appreciate it more, and at the same time I feel it is more "realistic". Then I pop into the published photos just for a "dip".

 

Regards,

Lyn

 

Hi, Ralf, Al, Any Person Who Can Answer, :)

 

I did have a question about what Ralf said regarding the curation process (posted above). Are revised photos not considered for publication? In other words, we're not allowed to submit photos to curation twice? Thank you! -Terri

 

I am not Ralf, but from my own experience - you can resubmit your photo if it is visibly improved. This is where curation comments are coming in. Sometimes other members can share their suggestions in comments. I myself sometimes take from these and re-edit my images. If an image is visibly improved, it can be re-submitted. I believe that the system keeps archive of all your submitted works, and curators can compare and see if your photo is looking better, giving it another chance for publishing.

 

As said, Terri - I am not a crew member, but I just share what I think is true, from my personal experience. Cheers!

Hi Terri

 

Derek gave you a very good answer ! Thanks Derek !

 

al

Many thanks, Derek and Al!

Terri, Dereck

 

Unless the policy has changed, I believe you have a step missing in the re-upload process.

 

However, before I post it I want to be certain. Therefore, I have sent off a message to the Curators just to double check. As soon as I hear back from them I will post here an answer. Keep in mind it is the weekend. :) Until then, just keep doing what you have been doing.

 

My best,

Phyllis

Forum Moderator

Phyllis, it would be lovely to have more information...thanks for all the hard work you do on the site! You are a gem. :)

 

Thank you Terri it is very kind and generous of you to offer words of encouragement.

 

I did hear back and I will open a new thread to post the information.

 

I hope it helps.

 

My best,

Phyllis

Forum Moderator

Yes, you can resubmit photos, however, reuploads are rarely published, so the changes should be really major for the photo to be reconsidered. Sometimes the curators will ask for reuploads, for example to remove copyrights or borders or something else that is easy to fix.

 

Good light, Rafl

Thank you, Phyllis and Ralf! That really clarifies things.

I really no longer understand the voting process. This is an absolutely fabulous image in every way. It would have never occurred to me to edit this image in the way you have edited it. Although your edit is beautiful as well the original (this one https://1x.com/photo/975175/all:user:143151 ) was already fabulous! This silliness about perfection, just because one can use Photo Shop is getting old in my opinion. I love this image exactly the way it is and I think it would have deserved to be on the front page, published!

 

Thank you for your kind words, Antje. This is that image which had 77% popularity, and I also thought it is fairly good photo and it may be published. I did 2x improvements, but no luck.. Well, this is how it is on 1X. I can think it matches 1x style and quality - but someone else clearly did not, ha ha. and it is not up to me. So, life goes on. It just feels funny because I had quite a few images accepted before, and now everything gets rejected, like I do no good things any more (even if these new images win photo competitions same well as my older ones). Well, maybe I don't do anything good any more. But who am I to even ask such question? ;-)

All the best!

Derek

Derek,

You have 47 published photographs. I think that speaks for itself. Your work is amazing and why the original photo was not published with 77% is just really unbelievable. It is one of the truly outstanding portraits over the past few months. It is quite unusual in its setup and yet whoever chose to rejected it at curator level missed the point completely even at such high popularity! Disappointing is all I can say to that and maybe the curator has missed his calling??! Do not value yourself by such a small opinion of someone who might reject a Picasso or Da Vinci as well. You are truly gifted, if the powers that be at 1x get that or not!

Antje

 

 

Hi, Antje, Derek's image just got published on the frontpage ! Cheers, Hans-Martin

Hi All,

If anyone is feeling even the slightest bit of frustration....around publications...I posted this three months ago...

 

It is from Robert DeNiro speaking about the Arts and the process of rejection. These are not only words of wisdom..but they also offer a path to change the situation...

 

So I really recommend listen to him....He will make you a smile..

https://1x.com/forum/563/2869/1438162245

 

His talk is here..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN4v_JK_qbY

 

Good light and 'next..'.....

Phyllis

Hi All

 

Discussion in this topic has been fine and nothing wrong with expressing your feelings. Do keep in mind, linking to another person's image as an example is not proper, needs his permission even if all your bringing out is positive.

 

At the start of the thread, I gave some information from three of my images which got over eighty percent and were not published. In each case, can see the Curator's reason and they were correct.

 

Your votes do count and are taken into consideration. Do keep in mind that a high percentage does not mean you will/should be Published. Many other factors come in.

 

Regarding the exact process for Curation I can not tell you since I don't know myself.

 

Glad to see Derek's image published !!! Congratulations !!

 

al

Head Moderator

as for your image, it should have been published "right off the bat".... https://1x.com/photo/975175/all:user:143151....funny they waited until a bit of noise was made...

Thank you Hans! That is wonderful to hear!!!!!

Thank you Phyllis, definitely worth taking the time to watch this one!!!

Thank you so much for sharing....

 

I am glad you enjoyed it...

 

DeNiro was funny, but also filled with little tidbits of wisdom.

 

My favorites were....

 

it is not personal...maybe what you are offering is not what is being sought after at that time. Not getting a part - not getting a publication......

 

I remember something Philip Seymour Hoffman said in an interview about auditioning. He said he went for auditions for parts he knew he probably had no chance for. He went because in each audition he learned something...and he could practice; in that practicing he was gaining experience. He never considered it a waste of his time or felt rejected.

 

The second favorite part for me was about 'next'..that if you are an artist you have to keep on going...over and over...and when the 'no' comes you just keeping going to the next audition, the next project....in this case the next image.....

 

I am glad you listened....

 

Thanks,

Phyllis

 

I’m new to this website and I’m really enjoying the many parts of it, I like the emphasis on quality and on learning. Regarding learning, I think it’s understandable that there is disappointment when a cherished image is not selected for publication, especially when there is no reason provided for the decision. If I submit the image for critique, I receive some very helpful comments but the comments are likely not from the curator(s ) who rejected the image.

 

I note that when I provide my assessment of an image in curation that my assessment is rated numerically from one to five. I suspect that it is other members who provide that rating…but I don’t know. Also, sometimes there is a check mark adjacent the rating. I don’t know what that means or who provides the check mark.

 

If the curators participate in any of this rating (scores or checkmark) then providing the submitter of the image with all this information would be useful information direct from the curator(s) to the submitter as to why the image was rejected. I’ve watched judges struggle to make comments on an image that they score low. So, I understand that explaining why one image is better than another is not so easily done. However, the assessments and scores are available and certainly look useful. Even if the curators don’t participate, it would be good for those requesting curation to see both assessments and scores. It seems like such a waste of educational information otherwise.

 

Perhaps all this is communicated to the submitters and I just haven’t figured out where it is yet. This is not a simple website: So, maybe just a reference link is all that I need. I’m still finding my way here....

 

Steve

Hi Steve, the rating and check mark come from other members rating the comment made by members and or curators that happen to voice an opinion about the image. If it is a good curation suggestion the number is higher because others have voted on the comment, it does however have nothing to do with how well your image was rated...hope this helps. Antje

Hi Steve

 

Can help with the explanation !!!

 

Antje, thanks for trying to clear it up, always appreciated !!!

 

For the image itself, only the reject or publish comes into play, given by other members.

 

If a member has a comment, as Antje mentioned, the comment is rated. The rating has nothing to do with the image, has to do with a comment made. The comment can help the image if its positive by influencing other votes or could hurt if its negative.

 

That comment is rated by members, one to five with five being the highest score. After the scoring, Moderators go over all the comments and adjust the scoring if needed, will see comments with lower or higher than the image should have.

 

If you see a checkmark or star by your comment, it was given by a Moderator. Both will get you extra points points with the Star being higher. Official Curators are not involved with comment rating.

 

For Critique Comments, you can see the person giving the comment. Most made by members and some by Senior Critics which is what they do. Will find excellent comments made by that group.

 

Hope this helps, anything else please let me know and will be glad to help out.

 

al

Head Moderator

 

Hi Phyllis,

 

this was inspirational, thanks for sharing.

Such a balanced view on rejection!

 

I spent half a lifetime being dejected when I was rejected, and there's really no need. It's the kind of thing that doesn't get taught at school or home and often you figure it out by the time your own kids have already grown up! When it's too late to be a role model...

 

Posting it here, where it is SO relevant, was a great idea!

 

Kindest regards,

Lyn

 

Thank you very much, Antje and Al, for your informative replies. Phyllis, that presentation by Robert DeNiro was very entertaining….and educational. Lyn, I guess none of us are strangers to rejection. In interviewing for jobs, when I was rejected I always consoled myself with the idea that the company was looking for an apple and I was an orange. In sports I made a joke of it: the teams always used to fight over me “you take him; no you take him”. In photography, I obtain satisfaction from continual learning and applying what I learn. What strikes me about 1x.com are the many different opportunities to learn. As I think about it, the feedback we receive from the curators is seeing what they consider an outstanding image. Examples show what really can’t adequately be expressed in words and are an invaluable aid to learning. I can compare a rejected image with these examples and learn.....and have fun doing it!

 

Steve

 

You know Dick Rowe ?

 

Dick Rowe was one of the most important producers and record executives in the United Kingdom in the 1950s and early 1960s and is the man who signed The Rolling Stones, Them (Van Morrison), The Moody Blues, The Tremeloes, The Zombies, John Mayall's Bluesbreakers, The Brumbeats, The Tornados, Tom Jones, The Small Faces and The Marmalade amongst others.

 

On New Year's day 1962 at 11 a.m. The Beatles played 15 songs to get a record contract with DECCA.

 

Dick Rowe who was in charge of the department A&R (Artists & Repertoire) with DECCA rejected them.

 

This decision is said to be the biggest mistake in history of music.

 

Transferred to the results of the curation process at 1x: Even the best curator can overlook an icon of photography and reject it.

 

Possibly that helps all those members whose images don't get published.

 

Cheers, Hans-Martin

 

Great story Hans, however, I think Derek's concern was not really about not having a picture published but more about the quality of work being published instead, appearing to be below 1X standards. I have been with 1X for almost 6 years and only got ten published. If that was an issue to me I would have left long time ago. I have to say however that I went to the main page today and with great joy found an absolute plethora of magnificent photographs on the front page...KUDOS to the 1X curators!

 

Although I still keep wondering how it is possible that there are photographers that 'almost' every photo are been published. Is it because they are so extremely good, because their names are known by 1x, do they have some connection with the curators/crew?

I can hardly imagine that this is the case. So they'll must be Extremely Good.

 

( What would happen if a starting 1x member would upload a photo of them, would it be published? I doubt it )

 

;-)

 

( What would happen if a starting 1x member would upload a photo of them, would it be published? I doubt it )

 

;-)

 

 

Hi Leon,

 

I used to wonder the same thing, so I started following new members as a curiosity... those who produce great images get published straight away...

it's actually quite simple...

when I'm curating and I see an image that I like, I open up the photo after rating it. This way I have seen many new members. One in particular loaded 10 images in his first week in 1x - 7 were published. He is somewhat an exception... but he is not the only person who I have seen published straight away.

 

I have also noticed that there are some very good photographers who only put

up their published work: they get images rejected just like everybody else, but they remove them shortly after being rejected... so don't be fooled by photographers who ONLY get their work published... I don't think there's anyone like that.

 

 

Hi Leon,

 

....

I have also noticed that there are some very good photographers who only put

up their published work: they get images rejected just like everybody else, but they remove them shortly after being rejected... so don't be fooled by photographers who ONLY get their work published... I don't think there's anyone like that.

 

 

Hi to everyone,

 

i think, Leon and Lyn are right .... one should not forget the general human side.

 

In the Year 2014 every second or third image of my abstract-pencil-photo-art work was curated. Since i won the 'conceptual' part of the '1x photo award 2014' in march 2015, i got none of my images curated although i put some fresh ideas into my pencil work and the member curation % are up to 74%.

Did the curators say: "enough is enough"? Or is there a new curator, who don't like my work? Did i some horrible things (perhaps i took my images from sales, because i missed the transparancy of 1x)?

i don't know. On the other side i often see very similar works curated from a few members - great works but similar.

I have unlimited membership till end 2016 - i think, i know what i do after this, if this situation for me then is still like today.

 

greetings

Udo

 

 

Hi to everyone,

 

i think, Leon and Lyn are right .... one should not forget the general human side.

 

In the Year 2014 every second or third image of my abstract-pencil-photo-art work was curated. Since i won the 'conceptual' part of the '1x photo award 2014' in march 2015, i got none of my images curated although i put some fresh ideas into my pencil work and the member curation % are up to 74%.

Did the curators say: "enough is enough"? Or is there a new curator, who don't like my work? Did i some horrible things (perhaps i took my images from sales, because i missed the transparancy of 1x)?

i don't know. On the other side i often see very similar works curated from a few members - great works but similar.

I have unlimited membership till end 2016 - i think, i know what i do after this, if this situation for me then is still like today.

 

greetings

Udo

 

 

Hi Udo,

 

Well, I don't know the reason about the rejection of your recent images, but let me tell you some thoughts about a balanced offering of different styles in a gallery.

 

Concerning your work (with the pencils), all started with ebony and ivory, an absolutely great image, that was most successful (with reason). It is ranking #21 in tutorial popularity (among more than 700 published tutorials). Possibly, if further members add this image to their favorites, it will reach page #1 of the tutorials.

 

As follow ups you presented a lot of very creative ideas with the white and the black pencil which almost all got published.

 

Most recently I saw some new works during member curation which I voted publish.

 

But the question arises if a gallery should publish all these works (within a short time) with regard to a possible oversaturation of the visitors.

 

Recently there was a new member who, within a few weeks, got published nearly 20 abstract images that differed only slightly.

 

And the recent publishing of many similar extracts of building's facades (some red, some green, some blue) is probably also not appreciated by everyone.

 

I think, a gallery owner is well advised not to publish many very similar images with only short breaks in between.

 

Hope that helps you a little bit.

 

Cheers, Hans-Martin

 

I have been away from 1x for a little while, and when I came back, I too noticed that the quality of the gallery photos seems to have changed. There are still a lot of good photos, but some seem to be snapshots and walk-up shots. Looking at the photographers I follow, I still see a lot of good submissions, so I do not think the quality of submissions has declined. It just seems like originality, and storytelling went slightly out of fashion in the gallery selection process.

 

I understand that the curators cannot publish written descriptions of every choice they make, but it would be interesting to know how they view such things as originality, storytelling, composition, light, form, and other factors, how they evaluate them, and how they weigh them against each other.

1x has a certain style, the front page gallery reflects that and by default, it can only reflect what is submitted to it for curation. Each feeds upon itself and the resulting in-breeding (motif / stylistic repetition) is hard to avoid. And don't forget, photo-fashions come and go, and curators despite their best efforts, can never be immune to fashion.

 

So how to accept/publish that original image when it appears? The answer is curators must take a chance. And from time to time I think they do. Most obviously when an image's popularly is notably very unpopular. That's their job. Despite the howls of protest of the mainstream.

 

1x meanwhile has to do more to encourage better image diversity in its front-page acceptance so that new photographers can submit to curation images 'outside' the mainstream. That is the fundamental challenge to 1x future success and it must be recognised, otherwise accepted style will overcome real substance and lead to stagnation. Good light!

 

 

There has been a lot of discussion about curation process, quality of images being published and few related points.

 

In my opinion, the whole subject of curation is purely a judgment process. Just because one is a good photographer does not mean that he / she can be a good curator. Secondly, every curator is a human being. Naturally, personal likes and dislikes for different type of images will always come into play.

 

Third, by creating the hype and suspense around curation process and keeping many things unknown maintains the excitement of such a website. Otherwise, it will be like other photo sharing sites.

 

Let us not forget what the greatest master of us all, Ansel Adams said: "There are no rules for good photographs. There are only good photographs."

 

Is getting a photograph selected for publishing on 1x so important? I would be very curious to learn how much real commercial benefit was derived by members who had many photographs published on 1x?

 

I think this "only 5% photo are published" is just to keep you waiting, continue as member and pay for membership. It seems to be marketing tool.

 

In any case, this is a good community and you see many talented photographers.

 

these are wise words - i fully agree

 

and in the past i thought that 1x and the members have such like a partnership - but in the last time there were so many unilateral changes ...

 

greetings

Udo

 

Udo, thanks for a response. I really enjoy the wonderful photos that you have been taking and uploading. There are truly work of art.

 

Just to add to what I said. Even curators do not have their all images published. So if they were so good at judging photographs, surely they would not have any photograph that is not "publishable" uploaded. And even in those that were published, any good photographer can find points that would make photograph not worthy of publication.

 

In conclusion, let us not be lured by this marketing ploy of 5% photos being published. There are many other ways to be a sought after photographer. Websites, social media marketing, exhibitions, galleries and photo contests (which run into thousands globally).

 

Let us focus on what we do best, photography.

 

Good luck and cheers.

 

Hi Bimal,

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I would however like to address your theory that the 5% only is a marketing tool. The curators don't strive to uphold a specific percentage of published photos. We recently took out some statistics and found that at the moment, approximately 5% of all submitted photos are getting published and 0,1% are getting awarded. Although the low numbers reflect 1x's devotion to put quality over quantity, the curators only review photos based on their photographic qualities and are not restricted by any publishing limits.

 

Kind regards

Thomas

Hi Thomas,

 

Thanks for the comments. What you said precisely validates my comment about 5% photos. I never said that there is a restriction put by 1x.

 

And that is the very reason no one should give too much attention to what is mentioned: '' .......5% photos are published" as it can statistically be 2%, 3% or even 7% at different times depending on the quality of uploaded photos.

 

So therefore 1x mentioning "........5% photos are published" as one special feature is possibly a marketing tool. Otherwise there is no need to even mention it because statistically it can be any % and there would be no need to emphasize this point.

 

Regards,

 

Bimal

 

Yes, of course the publish percentage differs slightly every day. 5% is an average. I don't think it's much of a marketing tool. It may even scare some potential members off. It's just a measurement that might be interesting for members to know.

Thanks, Thomas. It is all about opinions. They do differ.

 

Exclusivity is always attractive. It is human nature. A potential member will also not be an exception to it. And most of us photographers do believe that we capture good photos. So naturally, we would want to be in this exclusive 5% being published to get endorsement of our belief. That is where the marketing feature of this 5% comes in. It may not be deliberate on part of 1x. But it is how human psychology plays out.

 

Cheers.

Is anyone still interested in this topic?

 

I studied creative edit and fine art nude photos that were published about nine months ago, and compard them with more recent images. Again, I believe there is a visible difference in quality. Nine months ago, the technical skill level was noticeably higher. In my opinion, the images were also more creative.

 

When I look at the photographers I am following, standards seem as high as ever. Their photos just don't get published as often as they used too.

 

I realize that tastes change, and that my tastes are probably not representative. Still, I find it a bit worrying.

 

It would be possible to check a few statistics. For example if the number of congratulatory messages for published photos is declining or not, might indicate whether there is a real change. So would data about the number of visitors to the site.

 

Leon, I've been around for about 3-4 years now. My first pics were published through my first year. (I'm not a known photographer and have no connections whatsoever XDDD if someone wants to adopt me artistically, no prob!) I keep submitting and many many images are being rejected. Sometimes the pics are improvable (well, most of my pics are), sometimes I suppose they are not original enough or whatever. I just submit whatever I consider good enough and cross my fingers. Now, it's been some time now and I keep uploading photos so unless some are erased, my portfolio would be huge and it's just not the point. So there is a little cleaning from time to time.

Published photos cannot be erased so if you enter my page, you will find 114 published photos out of 188 there are. And another 'cleaning' is long overdue! So it's not that almost all my pics have been published, it's that I erase most of the ones that are not in order not to have a long list of photos no one would be patient enough to see. I guess it's a common case for many.

 

Cheers ;)