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#CREATIVE EDIT

Ian Munro

13 years ago

Hi guys,

I just thought I would put to you the question of "Are all the images used in creative edits your own images?"

I mean "Really?"

I am under the impression that you should go out and take your own stock images and textures.

Personally I am seeing what appears to be cartoon like images which have an unreal feel to them.

I actually love them and this style and this is in no way a slant at it.

I am simply wondering :)

Marie-Claude PRO

13 years ago

Hi DM,

I'm starting making CE, so i don't have many in my portfolio but I can assure you I'd never dream of using photos which are not mine, anyway it would be cheating since the rules on the site tell you you are only allowed to use your own images.

I use my own textures too (photos of anything I take whenever i have the opportunity).

I can produce the source files of each and every CE.

I'm pretty sure everybody acts in the same way here.

Mel Brackstone PRO

13 years ago

Generally the competitions I enter, and this site in particular, insist that you use all your own images. When I first started with CE I used stock photography of models from Marcus Ranum, because I didn't have any model shots of my own. Once I was able to supply my own models though, I reverted to using all my own images, and was also able to enter the comps with a clear conscience.

Not sure that everyone follows the rules though, Ian!

Ian Munro

13 years ago

Thanks for your response both Mel & Marie

I wasn't suggesting that anyone in particular has used alternative images or indeed cheated in anyway. It's just a lot of images I see do have a false cartoon look to some of it. I am sure they are all fine and I wouldn't want my words to be taken out of context.

Ian

Ian Munro

13 years ago

Cheers Mel.

Mel Brackstone PRO

13 years ago

I didn't take it that you meant anything wrong or that anyone had cheated, Ian, but thought my own personal experience might help show how I, for example, started with my CE.

I have the book "How to Cheat in Photoshop" and it shows ways for you to put things together like that, including how to "construct" things, using photos! It's painstaking work, but I believe it's quite possible!

I suspect the cartoony look could be produced with software that gives tonal contrast, which can sometimes add an unreal finish....

Anna Cseresnjes PRO

13 years ago

good question Deviant ... I have quite a number of 'creative edits' in my portfolio and all exclusively combined with my 'own' pictures and I supposed that everyone is doing the same (but maybe not ?)

rgds

Anna

Ian Munro

13 years ago

I think everyone is playing by the rules, its just my lack of knowledge makes me think "wow how do they do that?" :)

Anna Cseresnjes PRO

13 years ago

I think everyone is playing by the rules, its just my lack of knowledge makes me think "wow how do they do that?" :)

ha ... had a look on your portfolio ... how can you speak of your 'lack of knowledge' with your so amazing creatives :-))) joking ...

:-)))))

Ian Munro

13 years ago

Thank you Anna,

My mind has so many fun and strange ideas to carry out. I feel my skills are more limited to a lot of people here, but thanks for your vote of confidence.

I seem to get through things by the seat of my pants and the outcome sometimes is great and sometimes.....................well, less said the better ;)

Ian

Jeannette Oerlemans

13 years ago

Ik wist niet neem aan dat je iets verkeerd of dat iedereen had bedrogen, Ian betekende, maar dacht dat mijn eigen persoonlijke ervaring kunnen helpen zien hoe ik, bijvoorbeeld, begon met mijn CE. Ik heb het boek "How to Cheat in Photoshop" en het toont manieren voor u om dingen samen te stellen als dat, met inbegrip van hoe ze dingen "construeren", met behulp van foto's! Het is monnikenwerk, maar ik geloof dat het heel goed mogelijk! Ik vermoed dat de cartoony uiterlijk kunnen worden geproduceerd met software die tonale contrast, wat soms kan toevoegen een onwerkelijke afwerking geeft ....

Indeed with total contrast you get this effect. I will use Topaz Adjust.

Do you also book 100% Photoshop? Also so beautiful!

Steve Hill PRO

13 years ago

...but I can assure you I'd never dream of using photos which are not mine

I don't know... Warhol used other peoples images, themes, soup cans. Rauschenberg used other peoples images... DuChamp used someones "Fountain"/Urinal...........

I'd rather see great Art as opposed to the cheeseball stuff many people create with their own images or whatever they use. It matters, I suppose BUT does it really matter? Personally, I'd rather see something original no matter how it was achieved.

Phyllis Clarke CREW

13 years ago — Moderator

...but I can assure you I'd never dream of using photos which are not mine

I don't know... Warhol used other peoples images, themes, soup cans. Rauschenberg used other peoples images... DuChamp used someones "Fountain"/Urinal...........

I think it matters when you are competing with other photographers for a 'place' on the FP of a website. Or if you enter a contest to show your skills.

If you are creating for yourself and selling your work...and using royalty free work...then I think it makes sense and saves time to add things that you might not have in your library.

Also consider this... just because someone uses stock art to make a CE does not mean it will be any better than those who used their own work.

A great CE for me..comes from an excellent 'idea' or concept that makes some kind of sense... and then having the skills to follow it through....so that the way it looks - honors the concept. Also, some degree of originally helps.

Warhol was a naughty - in more ways than his artwork.....:) One thing that Warhol had is the willingness to take a risk. People can say..oh that soup can..but I always think....to myself.....okay.....but he did have a vision...that no one had thought of before. He showed something in a new way....he gets credit for that- from me....

Phyllis

Anna Golitsyna

13 years ago

I don't know... Warhol used other peoples images, themes, soup cans. Rauschenberg used other peoples images... DuChamp used someones "Fountain"/Urinal...........

If you achieve something original with someone else's original picture the credit goes to whom?

Mel Brackstone PRO

13 years ago

Jeanette I haven't seen that book! I'll have to take a look at it, thank you!

Marie-Claude PRO

13 years ago

Hi Steve,

I think maybe I didn't express myself properly.

I was speaking about "here" on 1X "I'm pretty sure everybody acts in the same way here."

Why ? Simply because it is part of the rules not to use any stock photos.

I'm quite aware lots of great artists used other people images to create great artworks……but they never posted those artworks on 1X ;-)))))

I wouldn't mind using stock photos to make creative edit pictures as a job for instance….. if I were making good enough pictures to sell them to a client.

Nevertheless things would be different in this case, I would make those images part of a job, within the rules of this job, exactly like lots of infographists who use stock photos.

Besides, apart from 1X and its rules, if I make something for myself, even if i don't intend to post it on 1X or any other website, I prefer to use my own pictures, even if it's "crap".

And as regards my personal pleasure to try and create something I agree with Anna G. 's sentence "If you achieve something original with someone else's original picture the credit goes to whom?"

However i can understand you when you write "I'd rather see great Art as opposed to the cheeseball stuff many people create with their own images or whatever they use. "

And i agree to that, especially when I visit an exhibition :

"'I'd rather see something original no matter how it was achieved."

Phyllis Clarke CREW

13 years ago — Moderator

And as regards my personal pleasure to try and create something I agree with Anna G. 's sentence "If you achieve something original with someone else's original picture the credit goes to whom?"

Well, when we see this and all of his Mariyn's

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/562291478/

We think of Andy....

But it was not his photo. He just used it and added on to it his own work.

It belongs to this person. He took the original photo.

http://lisawallerrogers.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/kate-middleton-does-warhol/

I wonder if he had permission. Or was it different enough that he could not be sued?

Phyl

Jeannette Oerlemans

13 years ago

I always use my own photos. I once used a work of art, it was metal skethoofd. I make the picture, and later prompted permission to the owner of the skethoofd if I could use it. I got the consent and have neat name when indicated.

I think you should shoot everything yourself otherwise it is not your own. Even if you use only one thing from another. Somiige people sometimes ask if I need something. I refuse always, the reason is because I want to use my own photos and not another. I do not feel it's mine.

Jeannette Oerlemans

13 years ago

Jeanette Ik heb niet gezien dat boek! Ik moet een kijkje nemen op het, dank je!

Your welcome! It is a great book!

Marie-Claude PRO

13 years ago

" the reason is because I want to use my own photos and not another. I do not feel it's mine."

This is how I feel too.

Jeannette Oerlemans

13 years ago

"De reden is omdat ik wil mijn eigen foto's en niet een ander te gebruiken. Ik voel het niet van mij." Dit is hoe ik me voel ook. MC

Yep! :-)

Jeannette Oerlemans

13 years ago

" the reason is because I want to use my own photos and not another. I do not feel it's mine."

This is how I feel too.

Yep! :-)

Google chrome translate mistake and a bit of me! ;-)

Ben Goossens ✝ PRO

13 years ago

Rules are the same in photo contest and in 1x.com:

all photos used in montages must be yours.

(some illustration or plug-ins/filters are admitted IMO)

That's why it takes sometimes a year and more, before I finish a montage.

Or, I have to adapt the concept, with what I have in stock or can photograph!

Marie-Claude PRO

13 years ago

Hi Ben,

being a real beginner is probably the reason why I don't understand what you mean when you write some "illustration" is admitted.

Do you mean a drawing of one's own we could use in a montage for example ?

Thanks,

Steve Hill PRO

13 years ago

Perspective and what it is we or you are trying to do is really important, here. I think trying to get Published is a major, big, soulless mistake. Once you begin thinking that way or doing down that road you lose yourself and start allowing others to drive or influence what it is you are doing. Allowing for that you are no longer communicating what's inside of you or what you have to say and your art is tantamount to lip syncing. Millions of people seem to be doing that and don't either know it or really care. Let them be and do what they want. The question is what are you doing?

Forget "rules". Rules are for suckers. If you are trying to achieve commercial success, rules apply but I think we are talking about art. There is a difference between success and commercial success.

Getting views and knowing you are reaching people imho is perfectly fine but "getting Published" for the sake of getting Published is shallow... imho.

Anna said:"If you achieve something original with someone else's original picture the credit goes to whom?"

I suppose the simple answer is you can take credit to whatever part or degree you deserve credit for the work. So, Warhol could take credit for whatever he did in the piece except for taking the photo and if whatever he did was let's say "amazing" beyond or extended the image Elvis or Marilyn, there's nothing wrong with that or he taking credit for whatever it was he himself, specifically did.

BTW on another note if you start catering to the taste of 1x Curators and you feel or see Ben, Rui, Jef, Ralf or I like something and you hone your style towards our tastes and spend a year or so doing this or thinking this way... THEN we quit, get fired, leave the site, take a long break... where does that leave you and your hones targeted style? Pretty empty pursuit... right?

Be yourself. Stop listening to other people and don't let anyone rent space in your head. Be bold.

Mel Brackstone PRO

13 years ago

Illustration to me means adding some painted colour layers or even adding brushwork to make a layer. I've seen works with added elements that have been drawn, and I'd say they'd be allowed as part of the rules as well.

Mel Brackstone PRO

13 years ago

I saw an exhibition being held in Sydney at the moment, the "artist" has spent 4 years trolling through Google street view, photographing images of that from his monitor, and putting the images on canvas for sale...

Is that payback or what?

(Considering so many people are complaining that google images is making their work downloadable and easily shared without attribution.)

Anna Golitsyna

13 years ago

I am surprised that this is not considered breaking Google's copyright.

Ian Munro

13 years ago

Steve,

Nicely put mate. I agree 100% and whilst I have tried my luck at certain genres I find myself just doing what pleases me and I drift back to doing what I like. If the curators like it and it gets published I am over the moon, if not then, maybe they'll like the next one ;)

Mel Brackstone PRO

13 years ago

That certainly is good advice, Steve, and I agree whole heartedly!

Anna, I also!

Marie-Claude PRO

13 years ago

"Once you begin thinking that way or doing down that road you lose yourself and start allowing others to drive or influence what it is you are doing. Allowing for that you are no longer communicating what's inside of you or what you have to say and your art is tantamount to lip syncing. Millions of people seem to be doing that and don't either know it or really care. Let them be and do what they want. The question is what are you doing?"

I thoroughly agree, sorry to say so since i know curators might read my words but I couldn't care less wether my pictures are selected or not, of course i'm very pleased when they are because it means at least one person liked them.

I never make a picture to please anybody but myself, to improve and get this feeling of satisfaction when i've achieved my aim.

"Be yourself. Stop listening to other people and don't let anyone rent space in your head. Be bold."

I like that a lot too "be bold"

I understand "be bold" as "try new things" and I'd add we have to for fear of getting bored with what we do.

PS :

"Forget "rules". Rules are for suckers. If you are trying to achieve commercial success, rules apply but I think we are talking about art. There is a difference between success and commercial success."

I agree about "forget rules" , I think you mean "forget rules in your work".

And in my opinion it is probably easier to forget rules for people like me, beginners, self taught amateurs who never knew about the rules in photography and only make pictures for their own pleasure, just for the sake of it.

I think it is quite different when you have to earn a living with your photos.

Ben Goossens ✝ PRO

13 years ago

I agree you Steve, that rules are there to be broken:-)

But, this case, is stated in About 1x:

"Do you allow using stock photos from other photographers in my photos?

"All parts of photos sent to the curators should consist of photos taken by you. You are not allowed to use stock photos in montages. For photos only uploaded to your profile, make sure you have sufficient rights to display them, you are responsible for any copyright infringes."

Meanwhile a lot has changed on 1x and we see in many published images were CG, illustration, PS filters (even 3D?) are used.

Technical quality became less important then IMPACT and ORIGINALITY:

a good thing IMO.

Steve Hill PRO

13 years ago

All for now...