What is Documentary Photography?

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DELETED_245482

12 years ago

This is the group for members who are interested in Documentary Photography.

But what is Documentary Photography? How do we define and perceive Documentary Photography? What makes it different and distinct from other genres of photography?

Looking very much forwarding to hearing your opinions and views ☺

Eliza and Jan

Remo Rufer

12 years ago

photography is always documentary as long as there is no staging. street is documentary, sports is documentary...

I usually call my photos documentary when they document an event, like a protest, a religious event or a sport event.

what i dislike is people going to africa, shooting portraits of children and call it documentary.

Anna Golitsyna

12 years ago

what i dislike is people going to africa, shooting portraits of children and call it documentary.

That begs an interesting question: why indeed a portrait of a child in Africa, just a portrait, is often perceived as documentary, but a portrait if a European or an American child is not? What is different? What is the reason or origin of this perception?

Eliza Powell

12 years ago

Remo would totally agree that documentary should never be staged.

Am always a bit reluctant to just 'pull' from Wikipedia but in its very simple terms:

Documentary photography – "usually refers to a popular form of photography used to chronicle significant and historical events. It is typically covered in professional photojournalistm or real life reportage, but it may also be an amateur artistic, or academic pursuit. The photographer attempts to produce truthful, objective, and usually candid photography of a particular subject, most often pictures of people."

Am curious about the reference to shooting portraits of children in Africa, specifically, as Anna says, as opposed to anywhere else? Would you elaborate more?

Eliza Powell

12 years ago

To refer back to Jan's first point also and my thoughts about what is documentary photography:

It's the study of people and places, lives and lifestyles, it's not always war and horrors, but often just a frank and fascinating look at how people live and the different circumstances that surround them, and us.

For so many decades we've documented what we see and this provides so much of the understanding of our history. Nowadays our world is so much smaller because of what is captured through the camera lens and available for the world in so many mediums. We are all insatiably curious and never before have the facets of so many lives, beyond our own, been so well documented.

It also gives us our points of reference for many of the world's events. If everyone listed the images that have remained etched on their memory as far back as they can remember, we would surely have one or more particular images in common?Does any other medium have this same impact? I bet we could, here, create a list of still images that we all remember, inspire us, or remind us of a particular time and event - there would be many duplicates.

Anna Golitsyna

12 years ago

Am curious about the reference to shooting portraits of children in Africa, specifically, as Anna says, as opposed to anywhere else? Would you elaborate more?

I would like to clarify and partially answer my own question: I personally did not mean "as opposed to anywhere else". Also Africa is just an example of a continent with mostly third world countries for me. The way I see it, in popular perception a portrait from Western society is unlikely to be seen as documentary, be it a child or an adult (unless there is an obvious social issue). A portrait of a child or an adult in a third world country is likely to be seen as documentary. Compare http://1x.com/photo/164443 and http://annagolitsyna.net/p582451522/h5b9ab08e#h5b9ab08e .

Anna

P.S. Should've said "in popular Western perception" and not just "in popular perception". Have no idea about non-Western perception of documentary photography.

Remo Rufer

12 years ago

to me a documentary photo should try to focus the viewer to an issue, maybe a social study of homeless people, chinese new year... so maybe thats my personal approach to documentary photos, to put the idea first and then shoot on that issue.

but for sure every portrait is a documentary photo, does not matter who is on the photo.

but what i dislike is if photographers try to implicate some feelings or issues in the way they compose a photo. maybe thats another characteristic of documentary photography, it needs to be very true. you can change your point of view and achieve a complete different meaning. i go to israel every year, i couid catch a palestinian when running to get the bus. i could then include in a series of photographs of protests.

so there is nothing wrong with photos of african children, to make it documentary you just need an idea behind it.

just my opinion.

Robert PRO

12 years ago

Its a tough question. For me its like this:

A documentary photo should never be forced in the view of establishing a scene but putting the people from a house in the right order in order to document the living condition is OK and this has been done many times. As for reportage documentary it is important not to process the image which also will not be accepted by the news agency`s. Documentary mirrors the reality even the photographer is a part of the image. I could start defining documentary in different categories but this will expand my comment too much. Portraying a person a whole day long is also documentary and a very special one. Important is not to falsify the reality.

Anna Golitsyna

12 years ago

Specifically about portraits. More often than not portraits are posed. In a strict sense, I'd say posed is a variation of staged. As Remo and Eliza mentioned, documentary should not be staged. How this contradiction can be resolved? Not all portraits are documentary? Then how to differentiate between documentary portraits and non-documentary portraits? Or posed by itself should not be considered staged and staged is actually about something else?

Robert PRO

12 years ago

If you put a camera in front of somebodies face of course the somebody will not act naturally. And when you do so during a portraiture of a person in his environment it is documentary. A portraiture in a photostudio is not documentary.

Anna Golitsyna

12 years ago

So, Robert, are you saying that for a portrait to be documentary there should be a discernible "natural" environment? Without such an environment a portrait cannot be documentary? How about this portrait:: http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/1500482/pakistan-10003_web.jpg ? Is it documentary? What about this one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b4/Sharbat_Gula.jpg/220px-Sharbat_Gula.jpg ? No environment in either case.

Robert PRO

12 years ago

So, Anna, are you understand my post? I mean have you read it?

The links you send are no studio portraits! This is documentary!

And btw, it is not staged like a studio portrait but staged:-) Both were ask to look into the camera!

In the book "Photo Inspiration" i have written something about documentary.

Quote

Documentary are supposedly those which aim to document reality, attempting veracity in their depiction of people, places and events. However, the process of mediation means that this is something of a oxymoron, it being impossible to re-present reality without constructing a narrative that may be fictional in places. Certainly, any images that are edited cannot claim to be wholly factual, they are the result of choices made by the photographer on the other end of the lens. Documentary purport simply to record an event, although decisions made in post-production mean that actuality is edited, re-sequenced and artificially framed. The documentary maker generally establishes a thesis before starting the construction of what they want to document, and the process of documentary-making can be simply the ratification of their idea. Perhaps, to misquote Eco, the objectivity of the picture lies not in the origin but the destination?

The documentary genre has a range of purposes, from the simple selection and recording of events (a snapshot or unedited holiday video) to a polemic text that attempts to persuade the audience into a specific set of opinions (Bowling For Columbine). Audiences must identify that purpose early on and will therefore decode documentary differently to fictional narratives.

Documentary can be so much more then showing the reality. Documentary is also art. Looking from the different modes of documentary which are "the poetic mode", "the expository mode", "the observational mode", "that participatory mode", "the reflexive mode" and the "performative mode".

Now when it comes to photography and especially 1x all modes are combined. The viewer no need search long and will find a documentary with emotions, feeling, drama, tragedy and of course happiness.

The photographer, the artist, interacting of course but never create scenes. Time and involvements in peoples life, feeling peoples life, partly living among the people will give good documentary work. Preserving peoples dignity in what ever situation the photographer take his pictures is mandatory and deliver with the photographers aim of presenting the reality in art form.

Unquote

Anna Golitsyna

12 years ago

So, Anna, are you understand my post? I mean have you read it?

The links you send are no studio portraits! This is documentary!

And btw, it is not staged like a studio portrait but staged:-) Both were ask to look into the camera!

Yes, of course, I read it and I understood it :-) . However your post left some questions which I have asked you. Strictly speaking, it is not possible to see from either portraits alone whether they are studio portraits or not, because there is no background. It is possible to take a portrait of an Afghan girl in traditional cloths in a studio or in a makeshift studio. Looking into camera is basic staging, from my perspective.

I think a documentary photo can document different aspects and a studio portrait can be a documentary photo as well. A portrait can document characteristic or, conversely, specific face traits. A portrait can document clothes, as both McCurry portraits do. A portrait can document an environment, as environmental portraits do. A portrait, if a candid one, can document behavior or actions. A staged portrait can document behavior as well, if the staged behavior is no different from the candid behavior, however this can very quickly become murky and generally photojournalists try to avoid it. Still, if you ask someone to carry this pail of water yet one more time, will it stop being documentary?

Anna

Robert PRO

12 years ago

Can you please tell me how a studio portrait can be documentary?

Facts for studio

Artificial lighting

Make up for the model

Pre-selected theme

Pre-selected posing

Unnatural atmosphere

Forming/shaping with light

The model/subject comes to the studio

Mostly commercial aspects

Special clothing

and so on....

If you make reprography from old photogrpahs which are documentary character yes of cource as studio work it will remain documentary work.

For example, the journalist who are in Istambul right now and taking photographs from the demonstrations are documentarists. If they make photos from people who are injured or portrait injured people means documentary. Basically the documentarist work with what he got in his hand.

I do not know if you know how Mc Curry make his resent so called documentary for example as he make his resent Calcutta series. But this for example claims to be documentary even he uses a huge staff who are helping him with setting up the scenes as he pais attention that nothing got changed and with this he produces art. Documentary as art:-)

Anna Golitsyna

12 years ago

Can you please tell me how a studio portrait can be documentary?

For example, as I have mentioned: "a portrait of an Afghan girl in traditional cloths in a studio" will make a document of her face and her clothes. If the photographer and model cooperate then potentially her behavior as well.

Facts for studio

Artificial lighting

Make up for the model

Pre-selected theme

Pre-selected posing

Unnatural atmosphere

Forming/shaping with light

The model/subject comes to the studio

Mostly commercial aspects

Special clothing

and so on....

These are not facts for each and every studio portrait and artificial lightning, as in flashes, is used for documentary as well. Unless it's highly commercial, make up is optional, especially for men. Posing can be pre-selected or not, depends on the photographer, a studio can be a makeshift one, clothes could be as is, theme could be absent (a plain portrait) etc. And sometimes you really cannot tell if something is studio or not. For example, is this studio: http://annagolitsyna.net/p582451522/h3fff4b15#h5b9ab08e ?

Yes, Steve McCurry is a prime example of blurring lines between documentary and staged. He does document some aspects of life and I wrote in my previous post, which aspects of life can be documented by working as he does.

Robert PRO

12 years ago

Anna, if you put that Afgan girl in a studio with her traditional clothes and portrait her then it is fashion portraiture. This is not documentary because the reality is falsified caused by the artificial environment.

The portrait made by you is not documentary. Its portraiture. You can see clearly on his posing and the portrait does not show any emotive things on him. Its purely staged.

Lets not argue or go into a philosophical debate as documentary is reality and based on facts and has nothing to do with phylosophy except you are making a documentary about a phylosoph:-)

Anna Golitsyna

12 years ago

Partially it's a matter of definition, whether such situation is documentary or not. Fashion portraiture usually brings other associations, and traditional clothes in third world countries normally do not associate with fashion photography to me, unless they are idealized traditional, or high end traditional. To qualify for fashion, normally clothes should be new too :-) . In terms of the "artificial environment": reminding that in both McCurry portraits of girls the environment is absent. If absent - it cannot be true or false, it is just not there.

The portrait made by you is not documentary. Its portraiture. You can see clearly on his posing and the portrait does not show any emotive things on him. Its purely staged.

Well, the guy was busy reading his poems to a fairly big audience. He glanced at me for 2 seconds like this and I was fortunate enough to have time to press the shutter. It most definitely was not staged by me. And it was not in a studio. My question now, BTW, was not whether it's a documentary or not, but whether it's a studio one or not. That you did not answer but I answer for you instead. What exactly do you mean by emotive things, ethnic or work clothes, or something else?

Lets not argue or go into a philosophical debate as documentary is reality and based on facts and has nothing to do with phylosophy except you are making a documentary about a phylosoph:-)

I think we can already plainly see in this discussion that foundations of what is documentary and what is not are rather philosophical and far from obvious :-) .

Robert PRO

12 years ago

This cannot be seen in the picture so it is not documentary! Then you photographed the wrong way as you choose this composition without any additional information.

Robert PRO

12 years ago

I think we can already plainly see in this discussion that foundations of what is documentary and what is not are rather philosophical and far from obvious :-) .

[/quote]

That is the opinion of a non documentary photographer

We should stop now arguing as we are drifting away from the original post.

Thank you Anna and i like to discuss in private and in detail with you the philosophical aspect of this:-)

Anna Golitsyna

12 years ago

This cannot be seen in the picture so it is not documentary! Then you photographed the wrong way as you choose this composition without any additional information.

I did not quite proclaim it documentary. I was offering to guess whether it was a studio one and whether it was staged. You decided it was staged while it was not, which prove my other point that people often cannot tell, judging by resultant picture only, whether it was staged or not. BTW, my goal was to take pictures of him, not documentary per se. This one, the most interesting one, turned out to be a portrait and not an environment one, which I have too.

What exactly did you mean by "emotive things", ethnic or work clothes, or something else?

Also, what is "additional information" right above? Specific clothes, actions, discernible environment?

Anna

Anna Golitsyna

12 years ago

Anna: I think we can already plainly see in this discussion that foundations of what is documentary and what is not are rather philosophical and far from obvious :-) .

That is the opinion of a non documentary photographer

I document life a plenty, more than portraits. It's just that it is plain, run-of-the-mill, middle class American and Russian American life that has no chances to be interesting either on my site or on 1X to a wider audience. And I find this lack of interest symptomatic...

We should stop now arguing as we are drifting away from the original post.

We were discussing in general and with specific examples what makes documentary pictures such. Dead on the OP topic.

Thank you Anna and i like to discuss in private and in detail with you the philosophical aspect of this:-)

I am fine if you answer my last questions in private. We can also continue other aspects of this discussion between you and me privately as well. I still think that many aspects of this discussion should have been interesting for other people as well, both documentary and non-documentary photographers.

Phyllis Clarke CREW

12 years ago — Moderator

But what is Documentary Photography? How do we define and perceive Documentary Photography? What makes it different and distinct from other genres of photography?

Eliza and Jan

Hello Jan and Eliza,

This particular question that you pose is very important for me..and that is what I will answer.I am not an expert nor even a documentary photographer. However,I do enjoy documentary photography and also I am a bit of a junkie on Documentary films. So my answers are just my simple experience as the viewer..

What makes it distinct for me is that it is factual. It shows me something that exists in the world outside of my home, that is happening or has happened. Also, it must have some kind of interest in terms of understanding my world, and further expanding that understanding.

So, if I see a person at the supermarket buying blue cheese, and I take a

photo of them, one could say, well that is factual, it must be documentary. Now yes,I have documented something, but I would not consider this documentary photography because most people know what cheese is, and they will not have their knowledge expanded in any way. It is just a picture of cheese of an American that they can see in films.

A picture of a person has the same type of a requirement for me if it is to be called Documentary, rather than a portrait. Show me something that expands my understanding of the world in which I live. These photos very often will come with a story of some kind, which further expands my knowledge.

Documentary photography very often does include people ...because even if you want to document something in a city, it always affects the people who live there. I think now of Detroit in horrible decay...when you see the houses and the ruins you immediately think of the people who live or lived there. It is not just an abandoned building, it is an abandoned population which all sorts of societal ramifications.

I think Eliza's series on the Maternity Ward in So Sudan is an excellent example of documentary photography. It is taken in a place where most people do not go at this point. It shows us something we might never have seen. It opens my eyes to the suffering of these women and the conditions under which they give birth and also to their courage. None of it is staged. None of it is overly Photoshopped. She just is 'there' documenting what is happening..

It meets my own criteria, it is interesting, expands my knowledge and it also allows me to cultivate compassion.

As for portraits, any time a studio is used to capture someone....this immediately removes it from being documentary. For those of us in the Western world we are interested in photos of other places. In case my Indonesian friends are reading this I would bet they would be very interested in these people - from the USA. They live in an isolated region, where most Americans will never get to see them. Yet, they are as American as I am. Actually, they might claim more so since they go back more generations than my family.

Many of these shots are posed yet they are still documentary. They show us a place unlike most of America, and people with a Culture and way of life most in the world probably never heard of..

http://www.edelmangallery.com/adams.htm

Phyllis

Anna Golitsyna

12 years ago

It [documentary photography - AG] meets my own criteria, it is interesting, expands my knowledge and it also allows me to cultivate compassion.

Hi Phyllis,

I agree with you. Pretty much on all of it. I was thinking absolutely along the same lines, that Documentary for most of us, middle-class Westerners, is something that we don't see often (or never), which "also allows me to cultivate compassion". This is why among first 84 Documentary pictures on 1X I saw more pictures of paralympic athletes than people like ourselves. In fact, only about 5 pictures were about people like ourselves. If you ask me, how do I know who "we", 1X photographers, are, I remember rather well the V1-V2 topic "What are you working with".

I also went to Magnum agency, whose goal is "to chronicle the world and interpret its peoples, events, issues and personalities". I looked up portfolios of every seventh photographer. Here are the results (if not mentioned, the photographer is a Westerner):

Russia and Bangladesh

Chinese photographer about Eastern Asia

Albania, festivals in Greece

Iran, Kyrgystan, Japan

Europe of yesteryear

Japanese photographer on Eastern Asia and US

England 80s and Tanzania

England (Martin Parr)

Brasil, Closeups of Spain

Europe of yesteryear

Working class, US

Ireland

This, not quite scientific but still statistics, illustrate my and Phyllis's thought rather well. Photographically speaking, we are rarely interested in ourselves. We are interested in others, most notably in third world countries and/or poor or otherwise disenfranchised people.

One important addition: we are also interested in our own history. We do perceive, say 40s and 50s in Europe or America, as full blown documentaries. Why? Because it is not us. Because even if we lived then and there we were quite different from us now.

Thus Western Documentary photography seems to document mostly everything but ourselves. There is a huge gap. Who will document us, Martin Parr?

Anna

Phyllis Clarke CREW

12 years ago — Moderator

It [documentary photography - AG] meets my own criteria, it is interesting, expands my knowledge and it also allows me to cultivate compassion.

Hi Phyllis,

Anna

I would still say that I enjoy seeing other cultures outside of the Western world. However, I want to be sure that this is not viewed as my only area of interest.

You mentioned Magnum.My favorite Magnum photographer is Bruce Davidson.He has documented things in my lifetime that I am familiar with. I lived through he Civil Rights movement, I rode those subways, we had gangs in Queens where I grew up and they looked exactly like the Brooklyn gangs.. So when you see a photo of something you can recall ...ie..I was there..kind of a feeling...that is no less powerful - for me. I hope this link works. I forgot the formula to make it smaller.

http://www.magnumphotos.com/C.aspx?VP3=SearchResult_VPage&VBID=2K1HZOQKWJOIYZ&SMLS=1&RW=1265&RH=607#/SearchResult_VPage&VBID=2K1HZOQKWJOSBJ&SMLS=1&RW=1265&RH=607

I would have to say I have very interested in myself..when it comes to my past..and I have to add my ancestors past...My mother came from Naples to this country when she was four.When I found the details of her arrival, I had her name engraved at Ellis Island. Its' a part of my history. I have the manifest of the boat she arrived on...and the details...and a photo of the ship! :)) This is my personal documentary.

So maybe they are not mutually exclusive? I have never been to Appalachia, and I can see the Allegheny mountains if I look West. I mean literally. Yet, I am really 'taken' by the culture of these people. I loved the documentaries on PBS ...they are worth seeing.

I recently watched the documentary film, The Central Park Five - I believe it was on HBO. It is just so well made I really recommend it. Of course that is a recent event..and still I was so captivated by it...It really opened my eyes. As I said I am a documentary Junkie. :)0

I am not sure if Eliza and Jans question is related to lx. Only they could answer that. However, I never thought of lx as I was writing. The question seemed bigger to me somehow...

However, I am glad we agree on something.

Phyllis

Eliza Powell

12 years ago

Remo, your points earlier are valid and I hear what you are saying. I do feel that Documentary needs to be about more than just the image. That is the differential, it's not just a static image, it needs meaning behind, it be it social issues, a particular way of life, and as you say 'an idea behind it'. It goes hand in hand with the story.

And yes, perhaps more than any other genre of photography it can be the most open to manipulation. Well no, that's not true…all photography is open to manipulation but our expectation of Documentary photography is that it must not; it is that moment, seen, documented, without any attempt to change or influence it.

I was looking for this link earlier - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/essays/vanRiper/030409.htm – the photographer in Iraq who photoshopped two images together to give the one more impact. Unfortunately it's these things that people tend to remember, there have been many more like it and I suppose it's because of that that people are wary? Standards attached to documentary photography are, quite rightly, very high but not always adhered to.

I know, for me, when I approach the subject I have an idea in mind. Right now I am working on two Documentary stories that I am researching and will then shoot over the coming months. Neither are random but based on a news story, something that (at least I feel) needs to be told.

Anna and Robert, interesting to read your points……do we decide, based on our own points of reference/understanding what makes something a documentary image and something a portrait - but then lines are so often blurred. What is documentary to us, a visual telling of a life very different from ours, is another persons portrait because that life is not different to their own (aside from where/how it is shot). (coffee break…). Phyllis will come back and read yours shortly :) - am late in returning to it, the power was off all night :(

Gianni Giatilis

12 years ago

... I do feel that Documentary needs to be about more than just the image. That is the differential, it's not just a static image, it needs meaning behind, it be it social issues, a particular way of life, and as you say 'an idea behind it'. It goes hand in hand with the story.

Hi all, I think Eliza's wording also reflects my view on the definition of Documentary. For me it includes the need of a story supporting the photograph. We are not talking about the cliche about the photo worth 1000 words but a real description of a situation with social/political or religious extensions. This description connected with the photograph, has to answer the questions "who/what, where, when". Documentary photography cannot stand on it's own unless giving the answers to those questions. In the case the story is missing, then it's a portrait of an African child or what ever.

Photographs of children in Europe also can be a perfect subject for documentary and I shot this kind of photos several times.

A studio shot can be a documentary photograph if the story is about the studio itself, in my view this could include the Afghan girl, the photographer shooting her and a possible story about the prohibition of female portraits in Afghanistan.

Gianni

Anna Golitsyna

12 years ago

Remo, Eliza, and Gianni, in a way I agree with you. At the same time a meaning or a story behind a documentary has a discernible potential to alter the reality, especially if this meaning contains a certain opinion. Because then a photographer could start shooting what fits this story and bypass what does not fit. In a way a story alters the reality because the reality is often not just one story. I don't see an obvious solution for these seemingly contradicting goals. I think, usually documentary goes the story way, something to keep in mind when looking at documentary pictures, which might reflect only one side of the reality.

Anna

Gianni Giatilis

12 years ago

I think, usually documentary goes the story way, something to keep in mind when looking at documentary pictures, which might reflect only one side of the reality.

Anna

There are always several sides of the reality and the photographer in our case (or cameraman or journalist in others) has to chose not only the angle of the photo, but the one of the hole story evolving under his own eyes.

This is hard mostly because you have to keep a distance from the story in order to see clearly, this was uploaded 15 min ago by Yannis again:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=680236342001869&set=a.186867808005394.52200.100000465287532&type=1&theater

Not easy to keep calm and report in a clear mind while this is happening:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=680234902002013&set=a.186867808005394.52200.100000465287532&type=1&theater

Anna Golitsyna

12 years ago

Awesome images, Gianni, on Yannis's timeline. His photographic mind is clear though and I see the intent all right, like here: https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1008415_677365005622336_1007161787_o.jpg . This is not a run-of-the-mill composition or point of view.

Gianni Giatilis

12 years ago

This is the point Anna, an example of how you can shoot images with great emotional impact and at the same time keeping a clear mind necessary to complete the assignment. Yannis is doing this for more than 25 years and he always had this balance.

Gianni

Phyllis Clarke CREW

12 years ago — Moderator

fbid=680236342001869&amp;set=a.186867808005394.52200.100000465287532&amp;type=1&amp;theater

Not easy to keep calm and report in a clear mind while this is happening:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=680234902002013&amp;set=a.186867808005394.52200.100000465287532&amp;type=1&amp;theater

HiGianni

I keep trying but I cannot find the pictures. I even went to your time line. It loos like Anna was able to see them. I receive a message which says..this content is not available.

Are they gone?

Thanks Phyl

Gianni Giatilis

12 years ago

HiGianni

I keep trying but I cannot find the pictures. I even went to your time line. It loos like Anna was able to see them. I receive a message which says..this content is not available.

Are they gone?

Thanks Phyl

It seems his page is not available Phyllis... weird !!!

Gianni Giatilis

12 years ago

this is on twitter:

https://twitter.com/yannisBehrakis

same photos...

Phyllis Clarke CREW

12 years ago — Moderator

Thank you Gianni...I am following him now. Is a few photos there.the most recent are of the park being cleared with the water hoses and tear gas.

He is right in the middle of things...it has to be somewhat dangerous for him.

I notice he leaves his photos in color. Often we see Documentary in b/w. Do you have any idea why he keeps them in color?

As for reality - there have been far too many photographers or sometimes it is really the newspaper or magazine editors who alter reality, and show us something that is not factual. They do however pass it off as fact. Clearly this man is not one of them.

As I said in my post above factual is part of Documentary for me...If it is not the truth then you are Documentary your own reality but not the actual reality that say the 100 people saw who were there.

Thanks for sharing.

Phyllis

Gianni Giatilis

12 years ago

I notice he leaves his photos in color. Often we see Documentary in b/w. Do you have any idea why he keeps them in color?

Phyllis

Reuters and most news agencies requirements are for color shots since many years.

Even Magnum accepts color shots for quite a few years now.

Phyllis

I agree with this Phyllis, as a rule, reality distortion is more in the hands of editors and political propaganda than the photojournalist himself.

Gianni

Jeroen Akershoek

12 years ago

An interesting discussion with several different opinions. Some I agree with, others not.

I don't think that photographing an event, like for example something you see in the news is in itself documentary photography. You are documenting something yes, but it is gathering news facts, showing the world what is happening right then and there. Nothing wrong with that of course, but not documentary in my opinion.

Documentary (whether it is photography or film) follows a certain subject longer and can go deeper. It tries to show what is behind the obvious that you see. The documentary maker can study the subject and asks questions to find out what is really going on. Is what we see at first glance really what is happening or are there hidden stories that can be told? And it has to be genuine.

Documentary doesn't have to be about serious things only. For example, all of the footpaths and bicycle roads in the Netherlands are designed. But people tend to find there own ways which results in 'olifantenpaadjes'. Translated in English that would be 'elephants paths'. These are shortcuts that people start using, and over time become new natural paths. Somebody noticed this phenomenon and decided to document it. Here is a link: http://www.olifantenpaadjes.nl/

So I think that a documentary can be defined as: "An authentic body of work that follows a specific subject for a longer period of time."

DELETED_245482

12 years ago

Thank you so much for all the great responses to our question trying to define documentary photography. Guess that I didn’t realize that it was such a tough question with so many philosophical perspectives. I don’t dare to summarize the viewpoints that have been raised, and I agree with a lot that has been said.

Documentary is probably about reflecting reality, and here I agree with Robert that documentary mirrors the reality even though the photographer is part of the image. An image will never be completely objective and neutral, because the moment you choose your angel, your perspective and press the bottom decisive choices have been by the photographer. I guess that this is also the case for documentary – the photographer often wants to convey a message – to tell a story.

I also fully agree with Gianni, who says that documentary cannot stand alone as an image – it needs to be supplemented by a story that tells what the viewer is observing. As Eliza is saying - documentary is more than the image – it’s about the story behind the image. There must be story that needs to be told. It is often also about people – the social side of reality. The story behind the images is extremely important.

Whether documentary can be staged or not – whether one can make documentary in a studio or not? That’s a very interesting question. I will leave this question open since I am not quite sure what to believe. But I do agree with Remo that documentary ought not to be staged. Documentary should to the extent possible show what the photographer saw and experienced. But I do remember that I have seen anthropological photography in studio settings, which I would think of as documentary photography.

I believe that documentary can be made by anyone anywhere in the world. Some of the greatest documentary photographers have documented events and people in their own societies and cultures. Many of them did it in Western countries, and this is still very much the case. There are hundreds of classic documentary photographers, who focused on events and social issues in America and Europe. Just think about Dorothea Lange, who photographed rural America during the Depression or the local Bang Bang Club guys in South Africa. Today there are so many great young photographers, who work in their own societies. Many are also travelling and working outside their well-known spheres.

But you do not need to travel to exotic countries and far places of the world to do great documentary. It can be done right outside your doorstep or maybe even within your own house or family. I have seen great documentary photography done by Danish photographers about prostitutes, drug addicts, skaters, the middle class and others themes from my own country Denmark. You can do great documentary anywhere in the world – you just need to look for the story, be persistent and to connect with people and the situations you want to document.

Kathryn King PRO

12 years ago

Great you- tube satire on western documentary photography, ;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e5mivkXmsc

two other great sources are blog posts,

abagond, on National Geographic,

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/05/31/natives-through-the-national-geographic-lens/

and the other blog post guest writer for Macon D,

http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2009/07/travel-to-exotic-locations-meet.html

Jorge Zúñiga Vega

12 years ago

I read this post just today, so i'm arriving too late, but I like to explain some point of view.

I found two main concepts, documentary photography, as a "genre", and on the other side, photography that have documentary value.

Documentary photography, according to some books, needs context, information, mostly of time requires long term work. It's not jus "a photo", it has to be more than that, it has to be an essay, a sequence of photos to "tell the story". It's a project, requires investigation, a personal point of view. Also, it's not only social, but scientific too.

A photography could have documentary value, and yes, a portrait of a european (or US) children (btw, please, America it's a continent, not a country). For example, a family portrait, from south of france, in 1917, obviously has documentary value, it wasn't an attempt to make a documentary photograph, just become in documentary.

For example, this photo it's a recreation of an Selknam indigenous ceremony, the photo it's dated 1923, and the selknam people was dissapearing, and the ceremonies too. So, the photographer Martin Gusinde (priest, ethnologist)asked the selknams to recreate the ceremonys in order to obtain a photographic document to preserve it. It's documentary photography? I think it is, and a very good one.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_f9UKLGaeODM/TUa30BNHQEI/AAAAAAAAAS8/XhKb54q1psA/s1600/Selk-nam_0006.jpg

Excuse my english

Jorge Zuniiga

Jorge Zúñiga Vega

12 years ago

here's a website of a documentary photography investigation in Latin America + Spain. This led to the publication of a book (btw, excellent book) and numerous workshops and exhibitions.

http://www.laberintodemiradas.net/

Deleted User

12 years ago

http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/slideshow?articleId=USRTX11HIF#a=1

Jeroen Akershoek

12 years ago

http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/slideshow?articleId=USRTX11HIF#a=1

I really like no 19. Never knew about this, but it seems to me that this one photo captures very well the essence of it.

I am somewhat worried about the swimmer, because the bull seems to be jumping on top of him. And the second guy on the right gives the photo some humor because he is wearing these aids to help him swim. I don't know the proper English word for it, but normally these are used for kids learning to swim.

Remo Rufer

12 years ago

I'm having a look at the daily slideshow every day, i just love them. good mix of documentary, news, everyday and sports.

Deleted User

12 years ago

This IS documentary photography:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/photos-from-russia-everyone-needs-to-see

DELETED_245482

12 years ago

Dear Clyde,

Thank you for the link from Russia - very interested indeed. Yes, that is certainly documentary - scary reality.

Jan

Deleted User

12 years ago

http://www.upworthy.com/a-journalist-went-near-mount-rushmore-to-take-some-photos-what-he-found-changed-his-life-forever?g=5&c=upw1