It's normal to reject a photo with 93% of popularity?

This is the picture:

https://gallery.1x.com/photo/1900115

Excuse me, but I don't understand.

Can someone explain it to me?

Thank you

 

Hi Joan,

 

It is normal but uncommon.

Curators make their judgment based on their own criteria and they are not bound to take popularity into consideration.

 

Some additional lecture for your understanding:

 

https://1x.com/blog/permalink/7948

and

https://1x.com/blog/permalink/8283

 

Kind regards,

 

Luc Vangindertael

Moderator

I Joan so I get this right can you please tell me is the 93% Popularity the finished score after your image finished selection. Or is it the high point in selection. Luc is right the curators have that final say as well all know. We have to rise to the challenge and come back stronger.

Hello Daniel.

The 93% is the finished score after image finished selection.

Best regards.

Hi Joan !

 

We have been on the site since 2014.

 

Go to my page, look at my works,

 

by the way I invite everyone else,

 

and if you consider it normal that I have only 4 published works against your 129,

 

then everything is really normal and do not ask such questions anymore.

 

Otherwise, your reject will become the norm ...

 

Vlad.

I'm sorry I bothered you, I didn't mean to.

 

You don’t have to apologize. I just invited you to visit my page )))

 

If I understood the process - contributors to 1X vote to see if they like the photo we submit then the SR Curators make a decision to see if the photo should be published or rejected - is this correct?

Yes it is Sunil

 

One thing to consider is similar images being selected before recently or many similar. Many considerations taken than voting members would have no consideration in voting

 

al

Moderator

Thanks Alfred, couple of questions:

 

1. How long the Photo stays for people to like or vote before the Sr Curators Reject or Publish the Photo from the time it is uploaded?

 

2. Its ok to get the image REJECTED or PUBLISHED BUT one needs to know WHY it got the Status? So further improvement can be made - one does not need to send it for feedback separately.

 

3. Do the Sr Curator decide based on HOW MANY LIKES? HOW MANY VIEWS? HOW MANY COMMENTS? a Photo receives? or Combination there of?

 

4. Some images that are PUBLISHED have single digit LIKES and small views (Cannot tell the POPULARITY - AS YOU DELETE THAT ONCE IT IS PUBLISHED!!! - WHY?)

 

Some of these things make curious minds want to know

 

Thanks

 

Regards

 

Sunil

 

Sunil,

Publication on 1x is not based upon popularity or buddy voting. It is based upon Curator selection.

Head Moderator

 

Sorry Sunil,

But the Curators never discuss their decisions. Otherwise it would be a continuous back-and-forth.

A photo is ether published or not.

End of story.

Leigh

 

Leigh,

 

No one is probably challenging Curator's decision - although it can be debated from the photo when photo with 93% of popularity gets rejected!!

 

if Publication on 1x is not based upon popularity or buddy voting. It is based upon Curator selection. - (See what I asked above) Then

 

If I understood the process - contributors to 1X vote to see if they like the photo we submit then the SR Curators make a decision to see if the photo should be published or rejected - is this correct?

Alfred Forns

5 hours ago · 76 published, 725 followers

Yes it is Sunil

Leigh,

 

You did not answer my questions above

 

1. How long the Photo stays for people to like or vote before the Sr Curators Reject or Publish the Photo from the time it is uploaded?

 

3. Do the Sr Curator decide based on HOW MANY LIKES? HOW MANY VIEWS? HOW MANY COMMENTS? a Photo receives? or Combination there of?

4. Some images that are PUBLISHED have single digit LIKES and small views (Cannot tell the POPULARITY - AS YOU DELETE THAT ONCE IT IS PUBLISHED!!! - WHY?)

 

I am sure MANY talented Photographers would like to know answers to these.

 

Best Regards

 

Sunil

 

Dear Sunil !

 

You have been on the site for so many years.

Do you still not understand that you will not achieve a truthful answer?

There are 2 topics that you will never get an answer .

Photo curation and sale.

Photos are curated in an endless stream and 13-15 curators are physically unable to view them all.

That's why the audience voting was invented.

This initial dropout of approximately 25-40% of popularity occurs in this first phase.

The rest of the photos are reviewed by curators.

And again they cannot see them all.

Therefore, they divide them into parts.

Perhaps the decision is often made by one curator.

I twice turned to the head curator about my photos and twice he answered me that he had not seen my photo and did not know which of the curators made the decision.

Now look at the composition of the curators.

Their creativity and, accordingly, tastes are very specific.

Let's assume your photo gets to be curated by one curator, I repeat to one.

If your photo does not match his taste, for example, he is a symbolist, then naturally you will receive a reject. But if you made a mistake with the exposure, your hand trembled, half of the frame is dark and only silhouettes are visible, then for this curator of the symbolist you have created a photo worthy of publication. If you are friends with him or just he like you, then there is no problem with the publication. And if he doesn't like you, if you ask unpleasant questions, then you won't see the publication.

In support of this, I can cite a recent example with the famous Bulgarian photographer Atanasov. Once he expressed dissatisfaction with some question. They immediately began to block it. There was a small scandal. It seems that the parties have reconciled.

But he still left the site and created a new one.

The new site is a twin of 1x.com.

Apparently, he didn't have enough intelligence to create something new, his own.

This new site is now visited by many former and current 1x.com members. There he promises them more democracy and good photo sales.

I just don't understand that photography or money is more important for these members. But that's a different topic ...

One more example. The site claims that before a photo gets to curators, it must have a minimum of 60 views. !!!

In their desire to make my work be seen by as few people as possible, the last time they sent me a refusal after 37 views !!! )))

However, Vogue accepted 5 of my works in a few months, which is very annoying them. And on Facebook I have about 1000 followers. So I'm not complaining about recognition or popularity.

It is just necessary that people understand where they are and correctly understand the situation and do not create unnecessary illusions for themselves about 1x.com. Take it for what it is. As the Bible says: Do not create an idol for yourself ...

 

Vladmir,

 

Thanks for your detailed note - appreciate it.

 

YES - I am a PROUD member of 1X.com and will continue to be one whether my photo gets published / Sold or not.

 

ALL I am trying to achieve is how this site can be made even better - with that said - Blocking someone just because they ask good questions and mind you NO ONE has So far asked for their IP.

 

If talented Photographers leave and start something new as you stated - is NOT a healthy situation for 1X.com.

 

Remember it is the Photographers that contribute to the Success of the site and failure as well

 

Best Regards

 

Sunil

 

Hi Sunil !

I like your answer.

I see that in many ways our views and desires to make the site better coincide. Repeating the words of the hero of one famous film:

At least I tried ...

All the best. Vlad.

I have been reading this with some amount of amusement, it is funny how some people have such delicate ego's that they bruise so easily. Either a photo gets published or it doesn't but you will never get an answer as to why that should be, it is not a right to be published it is an achievement and if you don't get published just move on to the next shot.

Ask yourself if you are happy with your shot and are you taking that shot for yourself or others? If you get a lot of views that is great, if just one more person adds it to their faves that is a bonus.

However that does not mean that I agree with the the choices that 1x make and I also would like to see the site become a lot better. Maybe 1x could select more shots to be published, and how about this for a novel idea.......lets see some different names and styles of photos getting selected. I found that the front page can be predictable and boring it would be great to see some fresh stuff on there on a daily basis.

 

James

 

93%, 30%, 50%, it's all about taste. Taste of the voting members who are working on the preselection of the photos before an official 1x-curator finds the photo on his voting screen. IF HE EVER SEES IT. Voting members' decisions regrettably are mainstream based. Recently I decided to upload one of my best photos in 2020 (so far). Almost 50 members voted, in the end the photo reached a popularity of 29 %. Means that 29% of the 50 members could imagine to see the photo on the front-page. Means that 71% voted against the photo. You can see it following the link https://1x.com/photo/1904153. For more information about the photo click the info-button.

 

It's all about taste.

I guess that no official 1x-curator saw this photo. 29% means: sentenced to death.

 

Nevertheless this photo is still one of my personal favorites. Maybe somebody will find out why when he looks at it more than a few seconds ...

 

Cheers, Hans-Martin

I think the curators are looking for photographs that meet the requirements they want to be worthy of a front page. This site does depend on great photography and I imagine that many of them have a personal view as to what meets their criteria.

A photo can be great having all the technical beautify of sharpness composition and would be hard to criticize but does it have serendipity? It is a scene that speaks to others in a poignant manner? It is not only spectacular but flawless . Does it tell an important story? Can it bring all of us into a personal space?

 

Some photos probably get rejected because they are not flawlessness but have great composition and beauty. Some photos may not meet the technical demands of cutting sharpness that a tripod will afford. Using reflectors or diffuses will many times improve a shot but the not al photographers are suited to tripods or other useful tools.Not all photographers want to use photoshop to blend out and small spots or distractions. So I would guess that some photos are rejected because of the photographers sytle and use of tools such as photoshop.

Over the years I have seen fantasitic images that were not publshed and rarely a piece that does not meet the quality expected.

 

I guess the whole thing for me is I learn to see and alreaedy know the flaws in my work. before I even submit them. I use old just, I have an old legacy lens that bends and I outdated cameras and foret ab08t a tripodl tjat is usually set up by the piano so I can record my backtracking assignments for jazz ensemble.

Point is I learn a lot and I appreciate this site for not just the beautiful work but also the opportunity to brag about my stuff even if not everybody likes it or gets it.Because nothing can take away that magic ,jot and lovely glow I feel when I what I see and know that I created it's beauty through my own unique eye. That pleasure alone is worth any submission I make that gets rejects.

Only a quick remark, popularity for the same shot uploaded within a few days or weeks varies considerably, ffor example between 50% and 35%, do not know why, maybe there are some who intentionally vote sometimes agaimst everything, for some reason I think the opposite is more unlikely.

Btw the icebear shot is great and differs from the other one often seen here.

 

 

Hi Vladimir,

 

I agree with your discussion on publication, but would like to add something.

There is no such thing as an unbiased or objective gallery or publication, because curators have biases. A photographers photo style has to fit that gallery or magazine or it will not get enough votes.

 

One of my issues with 1x is that the style and percentage of photos published seems to have changed since 1x started. A second issue is that the same curators do not judge each photo.

 

The best to you! Al

 

Hi Vladimir,

 

I agree with your discussion on publication, but would like to add something.

There is no such thing as an unbiased or objective gallery or publication, because curators have biases. A photographers photo style has to fit that gallery or magazine or it will not get enough votes.

 

One of my issues with 1x is that the style and percentage of photos published seems to have changed since 1x started. A second issue is that the same curators do not judge each photo.

 

The best to you! Al

 

Hi Al,

 

let me add a few thoughts about the changes during the last years. When I joined 1X some years ago, there was no member voting. Only the curators decided about publish or not. The introduction of the member voting was intended as a help for the curators. So far, so good.

 

It was interesting to see the popularity index of published and rejected images. Yes, there was a time when the popularity of every image was visible for everybody, after a few months this changed and it was no more visible to the community. There were publications with popularity below 30%, there were rejections of images with 100% popularity.

 

Apparently the number of voters has meanwhile reduced significantly, in the beginning about 100 members voted before the curators' decisions. Now the number seldom exceeds 40-50.

 

And nobody doesn't know anything about voters' qualifications to judge photographs.

 

When a very small number of members are able to sentence an image to death and no curator will see this image, well, that makes me sorry.

 

Example: About one year ago I uploaded a photo that was awarded honorable mention in the IPA (International Photography Awards) in the portrait section. When I saw the popularity of this image after some members had voted, I was really shocked. Voting ended up at 29% popularity, the members had sentenced the photo to death and I doubt that any official 1X-curator has seen this photo. A photo with a honorable mention in the IPA (www.photowards.com).

 

Link the the photo: http://www.photoawards.com/winner/zoom.php?eid=8-181573-19

 

I doubt that the member voting is a suitable instrument as a help for an optimal selection of images that are worth to be published.

 

Well, when I was an 1X crew member some years ago (I helped to collect tutorials), I additionally voted on more than 50,000 photos within two years, wrote a lot of curation comments (yes, and some of them have even been awarded, there were moderators which evaluated these comments). All gone by. Regrettably ...

 

A change to the better is desirable.

 

Cheers, Hans-Martin

 

 

Hi Hans-Martin,

 

We have some very exciting things coming up this autumn, which I think you will like based on what you are saying here.

 

Anyway, when a photo with a very high score is rejected it's usually because a similar photo was already published.

 

Good light, Ralf

Hello,

 

I noticed that your picture has your name/logo on the bottom right. I'm relatively new to this website, but I think this is not allowed by the rules.

Maybe this is the reason for rejection?

If so, it might be worth reposting the image without the logo. It's a beautiful image.

 

Cheers,

Vincenzo

Hi Hans,

 

50,000 photos in 2 years. The math says that is about 500 photos per week or about 70 per day and that is just the ones you are voting on. This means that most likely some photos are just getting a glance for composition or style before they are rejected. I would hardly call that curation.

 

Hi Al,

 

well, at that time in the past I had set myself the target to vote on 100 images per day. Collecting tutorials included I spent about 4 hours daily for these tasks. Two hours in the morning and two hours in the afternoon or in the evening. There was still time to write some curation comments or have a quick look at the 1x frontpage.

 

 

Thanks for your post, Vincenzo.

 

The name / logo that you mention is the watermark you can opt on when your image is displayed on the screen. During curation no watermark is visible. However, when I voted on some images during member curation some time ago, I noticed that there were some photographs where a watermark of the photographer was shown. That should not be the case. In those days I sent a hint to the crew that this was eventually a bug in the program.

 

I don't have a logo on my photographs, the name that you see is the watermark that the 1X-programm adds to the image if the photographer wants it. If he doesn't want it, there will be no name visible.

 

Cheers, Hans-Martin

<font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Faccio una riflessione personale su questo argomento che è ovviamente molto interessante. </font><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Quando una mia fotografia viene rifiutata (una ricetta dalla popolarità che ha ottenuto) non la butto nel cestino ma la guardo nelle settimane seguenti per ore e ore per capire perché è stata rifiutata. </font><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Se non ricevo una risposta completa da me stesso, non butto via la foto, ma la metto nel cassetto, consapevole che in ogni caso quella fotografia è una buona fotografia per me. </font><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">I think, ultimately, that if a photograph is not accepted by 1X nothing sensational happens. The photographic violation is very subjective, but I repeat, the main value must be given by us with our knowledge and our professionalism., voglio aggiungere che 1X è, a mio avviso, una "accademia" fotografica che impari molto, la professionalità della squadra è indiscutibile. </font><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Ps. </font><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Caro Ralf, non vedo l'ora che arrivino le novità, sarà il momento giusto per fare finalmente un abbonamento, perché altrimenti, prima o poi mi darai il calcio d'inizio! </font><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">:-) :-) :-)</font></font>

 

 

To come back to this question: In the end the quality of a photograph doesn't change whether it is published or rejected by the 1X-curators. The only difference between a published photograph and a rejected photograph is that the published one is seen by about 500 - 1,000 people, a rejected photograph is seldom seen by more than 100 people. Who cares ?

 

My recommendation: Submit your photos to contests, offer it to magazines or do something else. But avoid using platforms where buddy voting decides about popularity.

 

About two years ago I uploaded an image to the website of National Geographic (meanwhile regrettably ceased and transferred to an Instagram account). It was an older photo, taken in early 2014.

 

Checking my email account one day in April or May 2018 I was surprised getting a post from NG. One of their picture editors told me that NG would like to publish the photograph in their print issue July 2018 and whether I would agree with that project. If yes, I should send them the RAW - file so that they can check that the photograph was not manipulated (NG does not publish manipulated photos). So I did and after a while a text editor of NG contacted me and asked me how and why I took the photo.

 

After all that I saw my photo printed in the issue July 2018 of National Geographic (USA). I consider this a great success.

 

By the way, it was a photo that was rejected by 1X.

 

So, don't worry about rejected photos. Keep taking good photos.

 

Cheers, Hans-Martin

 

 

Hi Hans-Martin,

 

We have some very exciting things coming up this autumn, which I think you will like based on what you are saying here.

 

Anyway, when a photo with a very high score is rejected it's usually because a similar photo was already published.

 

Good light, Ralf

 

Hi Ralf,

 

I don't understand your explanation. You are saying that when a photo with a very high score is rejected, it is usually because a similar photo was already published.

 

Nevertheless I see thousands of other similar photos published at 1x, black and white with a siluette person in the distance and thousands of facade photos with windows etc etc

 

And here we have a photo of a polar bear, a threatened species that most people in the world never have a chance to see or to photograph. To me this is an extremely rare picture.

 

So I just don't understand your reasoning. Did you not look at his picture before you answered him? How can a picture of a polar bear in its natural environment be rejected because it is to "common"? It doesn't make sense to me when I see all the other similar photos that are published. What would he have to do to make the photo exiting, get the ice bear to dance ? :-)

 

Maybe it would be better to just say that the curators decide what is published. Period. This explaination we can understand...

 

Good light from Mette

Dear Mette!

I will continue your thought.

 

Maybe it would be better to just say that curators are tired for a long time,

 

I will soon replace them all, and I myself will voluntarily resign.

 

And the leader will be, for example, everyone's favorite Yvette.

 

She will do it no worse than me ...)))

 

Dear Vladimir

 

I will not continue your thought (which I by the way find a bit confusing).

 

I am sure that the staff of curators are doing their best and try to be fair.

 

They don't have an easy job choosing among all of the beautiful pictures flowing in to this site at all times. And if they sometimes make mistakes, it is only human.

 

Maybe the curators will reconsider and publish Joan Gil Ragas - in my opinion, beautiful and special polar bear picture after all... who knows.. :-)

 

Best wishes

 

Mette

 

Dear Mette !

 

Hope that you and everyone else understood that my reply was just a joke.

 

It is unlikely that this will ever happen,

 

but sometimes it's worth a joke to defuse the situation ...

 

All the best. Vlad.

My recent photo got liked by 10 people and still failed, one of my personal favourites, so what? that isn't something unusual here, what you like has nothing to do with whether it should be acknowledged, that is not unfair.

 

However I would like to stress two facts from I observed about curation:

 

1) Some photos or photos of certain people just got passed so quickly (yes, you can easily see a photo succeeded in curation before published, it is in "following") with only like 50-60 views, probably just a few hours I guess, but none of my published photos hadn't been through over 150 views and more than 24 hours (yes, there is also heaps of ways knowing if your own photo succeeded or not before published ) before getting passed. So I guess there is feature for curators so they can choose favourite followers(or should I say, friends?), something like that right?

 

2) Lots of photos look so similar and published in a row, once I saw 8 same category (I don't wanna say what category it is) of photos in a row.

 

Is 1x about artistic photography? what is an art? isn't that about creativity? or is that a signature of the author? If you come across a work, you have no clue who the author could be, and it could be anyone with similar gear can produce similar result, what makes it a better work?

 

I don't want to raise examples here because lots photos are from my friends and I don't want them to feel disturbed. There is nothing wrong with those authors and I respect their work.

 

I know curators are people and understand people have different flavours, that is fair enough. But some types of photos are so easy to get published, some are just so difficult. Because I don't think we have enough versatility of curators here, we have 20 categories here but only dozen of curators, by looking through the work of these curators, you can see some resemblance between a few but none of the them are specially on children, for example, and to be honest children are way more than just portraits of youngsters whatsoever.

 

Regards

Des

 

Perth, Australia

 

I have joined 1X.com for over 3 years and enjoyed seeing so many beautiful, artistic photographs here. However, I would like to point out that some curators seem to be very indifferent in animal cruelty, and unfortunately I continue to see wildlife pictures taken by "live baiting" got published on 1X.com. I have to think of the following:

 

1. either the curators are not qualified enough to identify those "live baiting", or

2. the curators themselves are participants of "live baiting".

 

Typical "live baiting" are those low-flying owls or birds fetching fish in water. The former was shot through using live mouse as a bait, and the latter was shot though a fish tank with small fish as baits.

 

No need to mention those staged pictures like "animal on animal" or "frog holding umbrella". Unfortunately I have seen similar pictures published on 1x.com, like a green frog jumping into water, or shall I say it was thrown into a fish tank......

 

Regards,

 

Michael

 

 

Hi Michael,

 

The fact that so far you haven't got any reply from the curators, crew, or even other members, tells a lot about what's going on.

This topic has been discussed already long time ago and according to 1X, the site does not approve such images and condemns such photographic behavior, but it seems that those are just empty words. Could it be that the images sell very well?

 

Regards,

Timo

 

Hi Timo !

 

Here's what I wrote 8 months ago.

 

https://1x.com/forum/15/4752/1583261126

 

So what ? Nothing at all.

 

A stone thrown into this swamp does not form waves.

 

He instantly goes under water almost without sound.

 

And again silence ...

 

Thanks, Ralf !

 

"Exciting things", of course I'm curious. Autumn has just begun and I hope there will b a change for the better.

 

Cheers, Hans-Martin

 

Hi Vladimir I just read what you wrote and I will say it is just nature. Animals hunt and kill to survive and if man had to hunt and kill to survive he would. There will always be photos of some sort that will upset some people but not everything can or should be 'censored'

 

Like many photos and subjects it is a contentious subject and not everyone has the same opinion, quite rightly so as it would be boring if we all thought the same.

Variety is the spice of life.

Perhaps this is a controversial topic, like many of my other remarks.

 

But the controversial topic should result in a discussion, in an exchange of views.

 

But when the topic is hushed up, I observe arrogant disregard from the site administration and indifference from the site members.

 

This is what I am writing about at the end of my remark.

 

Of course Vladimir, you posted a topic expressing your point of view and I am just responding with my point of view.

I think this is called and exchange of views!! lol

My observations from my pictures are: 1 year ago a picture has been published often if popularity was above 50%, rarely rejected if 60 % and higher, like some of the last ones in my portfolio, this, however, has changed, no longer is a picture with 65% popularity likely to be accepted, much more likely to be rejected. Hard to get pictures published if not iconic views, strong colours, or "known subjects" (I do not comment on this). Also currently analyzing whether it makes sense to renew the subsciprtion or not, tend to the former option, since, in general voting gives me a hint which pictures to send to my stock agency or not.

Hi Ulrike

 

When I joined 1x, it claimed that only 5% of photos sent to curation were published. Now the claim is 1%. To have an 80% reduction in published photos, something has to give. There must be additional or tighter filtration used to exclude that 80%.

I am also considering whether to renew at the end of the year as a pro, because I use 1x mainly as a portfolio thru my albums.

 

Have a nice day!

 

Hi, Al,

 

it makes no sense to deal with figures that may have been valid sometime in the past but not today. Neither 1% nor 5% of the submitted images are published !

 

In these days about 10 % of the uploads are published. From Monday to Thursday during last week (within 4 days) there was an upload of about 2400 images. Makes about 600 images per day.

 

Every 24 minutes an image is published. Makes 60 images per day.

 

60 / 600 = 10 %.

 

Good light, Hans-Martin

 

Hi Hans,

 

 

Maybe your sample of 4 days is long enough to give better accuracy.

 

Enjoy your day!

 

 

.... Recently I decided to upload one of my best photos in 2020 (so far). Almost 50 members voted, in the end the photo reached a popularity of 29 %. Means that 29% of the 50 members could imagine to see the photo on the front-page. Means that 71% voted against the photo....

 

Cheers, Hans-Martin

 

Hi Hans,

- How do you see/understand how many users have seen a photo during the curation and how do you know how many of them voted for publication?

 

I also take advantage of your kindness to ask you also this, if you know:

- how long does the curation last before the photo is rejected or eventually passed to the scrutiny of the curators? Half day, one day, 2 days?

 

I thank you in advance for the answers.

Obviously if anyone else has the answers I would like to let me know.

 

A cordial greeting to all.

Sergio

Since we have recognized publishing is at the mercy of the "personal taste" of the curator, shall 1X.com put a term limit on each curator's seat so that the photographers do not fit into the current curator's taste may have a better chance with the next? The sole curatorship in certain categories, such as landscape and wild life, certainly concerns me. It means we either need to change our own style to meet their "person taste", or stop uploading until 1X.com changes the curators.

 

It is a fair question to ask... should 1X.com put a term limit on each curator?

 

Michael

 

Cheers, Hans-Martin

 

 

Hi Hans-Martin,

 

We have some very exciting things coming up this autumn, which I think you will like based on what you are saying here.

 

Anyway, when a photo with a very high score is rejected it's usually because a similar photo was already published.

 

Good light, Ralf

 

Hi Ralf,

 

thanks for the improvement concerning the curation process (in the gamma version). I just tried it out and I like it. After a little more experience I will give you a detailed feedback. One thing so far:

 

1. You started with a maximum curator grade 12 and the members on the top of the list had achieved this grade. Some days later the grade of these people had changed to 10, which I like better, because it corresponds to the 10 apprentice grades. But in the explanation of the grades (Learn more) there are still curator grades 11 and 12 mentioned. I think you should correct this.