1.7..."You can make Your Photograph(s) available for sale when you upload new photographs (by default they will be available for sale when you upload)"

 

1.8 “Printed copies” shall mean printed versions of Your Photograph(s) on any material, including, but not limited to, paper, fine art paper, canvas, metal, fabric, plexiglas, pastic and wall peels, or on any other physical object.

 

7.15 ... 1x and 1x's Partner(s) have the right to give away printed copies or digital downloads of Your Photograph(s) for free for promotional purposes in order to increase sales.

 

2.5 ... "1x is also granted the right to sublicense the right to market and sell and to distribute or have distributed printed copies of Your Photograph(s) to 1x's Partner(s), solely chosen by 1x."..... 1x will not sell Your Photograph(s) as digital image files in greater resolution than 2,5 megapixels unless you have given written consent in an email.

 

7.2 ... 1x also undertakes to inform 1x's Partner(s) to acknowledge and identify you as the author of Your Photograph(s) made available for sale.

 

13.1 1x undertakes to inform 1x's Partner(s) and subcontractor(s) in accordance with Sections 7.2, 7.5 and 7.6 above. 1x does not, however, undertake any liability for 1x's Partner(s)' and subcontractor(s)' compliance with such information and/or 1x's Partner(s)' and subcontractors' use of Your Photograph(s).

 

7.9 1x has the right to offer digital image files of Your Photograph(s) in different formats and sizes as decided by 1x in it's sole discretion. 1x will not offer digital image files of Your Photograph(s) in greater resolution than 2,5 megapixels.

 

7.11 1x and 1x's Partner(s) decides exclusively and in their sole discretion the prices offered to Customers for printed copies and digital image files of Your Photograph(s).

 

7.12 The compensation to you for each printed copy or digital download of Your Photograph(s) sold by 1x shall be fifty (50) percent of the net sales price, defined as the price to the customer less printing costs, shipping and handling costs, repro and image adjustment costs, transaction fees, shipping costs, discounts, sales tax, custom duties and other taxes, fees and costs.

 

7.13... 1x will not send/transfer compensation to you for earnings in USD if your total earnings since your last pay out by 1x are below 90 USD.

 

7.19 If you wish to stop selling digital downloads or printed copies of any of all of Your Photograph(s) you may deselect them... If Your Photograph(s) are already being marketed, distributed and sold or offered for sale by 1x's Partner(s) it may take up to 6 calendar months until 1x's Partner(s) will cease to market, distribute, sell and offer Your Photograph(s) for sale after you have made your Photograph(s) unavailable for sale.

 

I got a lot of oemails and mails.

The most intense questions have been, that it is not a member agreement or user agreement but a print agreement.

 

This in addition to the already existing print agreement is a problem for all those users who already have sold and sell images elsewhere. Means the more successful ones.

 

I contacted the founders and told them about the concerns and I am sure they will react

The biggest difference between the old and new agreement is that our partners will now help to sell prints. It's still optional to sell prints, if you don't want to, just deselect your photos in "Account settings" "Select photos to sell".

 

The license is non-exclusive so you can still sell photos elsewhere. However the chances of selling are now much greater since our partners already have very successful stores and webshops.

Thanks for clarification Ralf, many users had such questions.

 

Who are this partners? Can I read about that somewhere?

I think part of the concern here is when it is combined with the stated aim on the blog:

 

"Our goal is that all photos published on 1x should be for sale in the future so that customers are not dissapointed to find that the photos they like the most are unavailable."

 

There are many reasons why photographers who have submitted their images to 1x might not wish them to be sold, or even sold via 1x and its partners.

 

For some, capital gain is not a desire - the purpose is to create images for the sake of creating them, and sales are not a part of their framework.

 

For some, model release agreements might have allowed the photographer to use the image for personal promotional purposes, but not financial gain.

 

For others, they might wish to have a greater sense of control over who is producing the prints, the amount they are selling for and the places they can be sold.

 

And I am sure there are many other reasons or nuances that could come into play.

 

So if the stated aim of 1x is to become, in essence, a stock-photo site, where all images are for sale - does this mean that those who do not wish to have their photos sold via 1x will no longer be welcome to submit their images here?

And how, pray, are we to understand this statement: "Our goal is that all photos published on 1x should be for sale in the future so that customers are not dissapointed to find that the photos they like the most are unavailable." (from the blog).

"Allow sale of your photos or GTFO?" - do I understand it correctly?

 

That is certainly one of the biggest differences. Other really big differences as per new agreement are:

 

- These partners are not known to 1X members and bear no responsibility for anything done by them to the photographs, be it printed or files. 1X does not bear responsibility for anything that partners do either. Even our authorship is just a piece of information to the partners and not mandatory for them.

 

- Even if you mark your photograph as not for sale or even delete your account, your pictures can be sold for up to 6 months(!) against your wishes. Is it even legal?

 

- There were fixed sums that would go to photographers from each sale. Now these sums are unknown and can be anything up to zero. That is due to possible discounts and 1X now having rights to give away printed materials and picture files for free. There is no language that a photographer will be even notified of a sale or a free giveaway.

 

- So far printing was on paper, to be treated as a piece of art. Now 1X retains rights to print on mugs, mousepads, T-shirts etc.

 

- So far 1X was not selling files but the file compensation to the photographer was specified in the previous agreement ($1 or one euro). Assuming that new file selling intent is similar, the new agreement gives away a 2500x1000 file for $1 to photographer. Half a page of a quality print.

 

- Photographer's earnings below $90/90 euros remain 1X property.

 

And more differences, of course.

 

Anna

 

- not, if you never signed that agreement

 

- yes .. I agree that the way of marketing and the partners of marketing should be points, the photographer can have influence on.

 

Ralf, many of us already have sold images or made contracts about some or series, that are published here too. Some of the contracts I have do not allow me, to give my images out of my hand. I can sell prints for certain usage (and would like to). But I am not allowed to lay all and every right of usage wherever, whenever including crops, alterations .... In the hand of unknown thirds,

 

I think. Right to decide how the images can be used or some participation is as important as the right to be informed and decide.

 

I only can suggest, to separate the user agreement from the prints agreement. The actual way of mixing it up, and combine it with some other agreements is a disadvantage..... At least for you ( as your partners might ignore your vision of 1x as well) as for us members.

 

I would like to suggest to make a member agreement concerning membership and site usage. And print agreement.

 

Ralf, PLEASE don't act like we're naive and PLEASE don't patronize us with posts like this.

 

If you want to address the issues being raised, go through the list of BIG changes one by one and explain how each is good for the membership. PLEASE!!

 

And PLEASE address the untested and poorly designed roll out of the mobile site that members have been waiting on for a very long time.

Ralf,

 

I have a couple of questions regarding the new Member's Agreement and it would be great if you could reply/comment on those:

 

1. I have never enabled 'sales' of my images in 1x. Can you confirm that 1x will in future never sell my images in digital form or in any other form through its subsidiaries or partners?

 

2. I am concerned about the 'Automatic Acceptance' of the new agreement after 30 days. A number of photographers on 1x that I know of are currently not active and would be affected by this new agreement. I am also surprised (I have no legal background) that an 'automatic acceptance' would be lawful - can you elaborate on this?

 

3. Paragraph 7.19 of the new agreement mentiones that it may take up to 6 calendar months until 1x's Partner(s) will cease to market, distribute, sell and offer Your Photograph(s) for sale after you have made your Photograph(s) unavailable for sale. Can you explain why it takes such a long time for the change to become effective? In today's world of fast communciation this seems unreasonable to me. Can you also confirm that if you had 'sales' activitated with 1x and you de-activate it before accepting the new member agreement, that the 6 month before does not apply and all sales are stopped immediately?

 

4. As a general comment, with the new member's agreement you have removed a lot of control for each 1x member on how their images will be potentially used. Is this the new direction that you envisage with 1x? Maybe can you update all members on your latest view on 1x vision?

 

Thanks a lot in advance.

 

Guido

Hey Guido,

 

Good questions, thank you.

 

1) Yes, I can assure you that 1x and our partners will never sell any images that you don't want to sell.

 

2) Yes, this is very common for internet sites and computer software. Think about how many times iTunes has asked you to accept new license terms. We have only changed the agreement a few times since 1x started 6 years ago. I don't think any inactive photographers are currently selling prints which means that there will be virtually no difference for them between the previous and this new agreement.

 

3) Yes, like you say if you deactivate sales before accepting the new agreement our partners will not sell any of your images. 6 months is the absolute upper limit. Usually it's much faster than that likely a week or less. This time frame is necessary because our partners might have printed some works and it would be a big waste to throw those prints away if they are already printed.

 

4) It's optional to participate so you don't lose any control if you don't sell images. With print sales in the new agreement you have the chance to sell a lot more thanks to our partners and you will always get 50% royalty. We will never sell mugs, mouse pads and such things, that would completely ruin the reputation of 1x. We ensure that all our partners only sell high quality products.

 

It's actually been like this the whole time, print sales is part of the user agreement. The only difference is that we used to have a separate "Third party print sales agreement". To make things less confusing with a lot of different agreements that are hard to understand the relationship between, there is now only one agreement instead of two.

 

If anyone have special concerns about how certain images are used just send an email to support[at]1x.com and we will inform you about exactly how it will be used and we can work out together if it's possible to offer it for sale or not.

 

Hi Ralf,

 

thank you very much for your fast reply and your responses - much appreciated.

 

I don't understand your response re point 2). Yes Itunes has asked me multiple times to accept a new license agreement and I see nothing wrong with that. What I haven't seen/experienced in the past that new license terms were accepted in an 'automatic' fashion.

 

I would expect that 1x or its partners cannot sell any images of an 1x member that hasn't been active (i.e. hasn't logged on) for some time until the member logs on and agrees to the new terms.

 

Guido

 

1) It says clearly in the agreement that there will always be information about who is the author where prints are sold. Of course our partners only have the right to use 1x images as intended or there will otherwise be legal consequences.

 

2) Usually it would take a lot less time than 6 months, like a day or a week. However, sometimes a store already has a few prints in stock and need some time to sell them.

 

3) All sales on 1x are registered in your account. All sales by 1x's partners will be transferred to you at the ned of the following calendar quarter. There are no fixed sums because we don't want to have to change the agreement every time we might change the price of the products. All companies selling prints do discounts sometimes to increase sales, which is positive for the photographers because more prints will be sold. However the big majority of prints will be sold at regular prices.

 

4) Digital downloads intended maximum resolution is about 2,1 MP. These are intended for background images and not prints.

 

5) This is to make the administration easier for us, since we are already using a lot of time on it. If you have sold more than 1 print you have already earned more than 90 eur or usd.

Hi. Ralf,

 

as I already wrote, this new agreement is not a theoretical problem to me..

 

May I ask again, who the partners are, who can decide about what happens to our images?

 

And may I ask again, whether its possible, to include us in the decisions , where we want to see our images, and where not?

I assume, that many of us have already deals, that forbid certain usages of certain images. Is there really a problem, to allow the photographer to have the final decision where his images are used or shown ( for free) ?

 

And third, what happens to that Eurographics print agreement ? It is still there too, partly contradicting this agreement partly an addition?

 

Best wishes

 

Christoph

 

Thank you, Christoph.

 

Guido, this type of agreements are very common on various internet sites. It's really the only way to make things work with such a massive amount of users as internet sites have.

 

Christoph, our partners for now are Photowall and Gallerix, two Swedish well renowned companies selling prints. Yes, if there are any problems with a certain type of usage for a certain image, just go ahead and send us an email to support[at]1x.com and we will work it out.

 

There is no contradiction with the Eurographics print sales agreement, if a photo is selected by Eurographics, it will simply not be offered to any other partners since the Eurographics license is exclusive.

 

It means that our goal is that as many photos on 1x as possible should be available. If only few photos are available, customers will lose interest when they can't buy the photos they really want. Therefore the more photos that are available the better and it will increase everyone's chances of selling because more people who want to buy prints will be attracted to 1x. I wouldn't go to a store where I could only buy a few of the items in the store.

 

According to my opinion, 1x should review the terms of the contract. The terms are confusing and in some terms "abusive" for photographers 1x users.

This is not right.

 

We all rely on 1x.

 

So we decided to publish our work in this wonderful space.

We all deserve clarity, alternatives, and deserve decide: as sold, to whom sold, and how they are used, our images, at any time.

I think it's pretty hard to sell photographic work!

Once you decide to sell work:

1) is copyright (undeniable) know and know the destination and the dissemination of their images when this so requires.

2) The author's right to decide whether or not stop the sale of his own work. The more sensible and reasonable time is a maximum of three months. Six months is a bit exaggerated

3) In the options;

It is not legal (juridically) to understands signed an agreement in which one party is not aware. (Users do not have access to 1x for a while ... are not informed)

This point is "legally abusive" and before any court, would be nullified, what you have lost.

The bilateral contract are provided on both sides and equal conditions for information.

4) All clear whether the system would simply would offer these options:

check and sign alternatives:

a) Do you want to sell the work of mediation 1x?

b) Do you want to allow downloads of your work?

c) Would you give permission for them to modify your work?

Other companies:

a) Do you want to sell the work to other companies, exclusively licensed?

b) Do you want to be informed of their fate and their use (present and future)?

c) Would you be able to cancel the contract with a time of three months prior?

 

Ralf: Your approach should be:

1x must have the most photos available to the customer:

But always with the full and fully informed consent of the author.

This is right! :)

 

Best Regards.

Sol

Hey Sol,

 

Thanks for your good questions.

 

1) Not quite sure what you mean, but the copyright always belongs to the photographer.

 

2) 6 months is the upper limit, in almost all cases it will rather be a day or a week. If a certain store has already made a few prints they might need some time to sell them, but in the vast majority of cases images will be printed on demand, which means that they can be cancelled very quickly.

 

3) This is how most major internet sites do it, but we are going to take some extra measures to make sure that everyone is fully informed.

 

4) We want 1x to be as simple as possible with as few options as possible. Many different options is often confusing. There are no alterations of photos except correcting colors if there is a problem and sometimes a bit of cropping to make sure the photos fit into frames.

 

If you have any concerns about how a certain image is used just go ahead and send an email to support[at]1x.com and we will find a solution that is beneficial for all parties.

 

 

Thank you very much Ralph,

Just you remember that we too are "clients" of 1x.

Just want to be and to have equal, fair!

The conditions of their "clients-companies" must not take precedence over us.

Remember that 1x is a catalog of works ... you have to offer (as a business) to its potential "corporate customers".

But remember that without the works of the photographers ... the catalog does not exist! : (

You must find a balance between "clients authors" and "clients-companies"

It is necessary to do so.

These details make the difference between 1x and other websites photography. Their quality throughout! :)

Thanks for your time and for your attention!

Best Regards.

Sol

 

 

I don't want to add fuel to the fire but I think your comparison will make some of us scratch our head...

 

See, I for one (and I guess I'm not the only one), don't feel like I am putting my picture on a store shelf when I upload here at 1x. We like sharing our works with other photographers, and for some of us, selling is not part of the equation.

 

You are explicitly saying that the goal for 1x is to have as much "offering" as possible for potential buyers. I thought that the goal was to have a nice community of photographers with a curated gallery, and that enabling prints was a bonus, not the other way around. But... either I was wrong or things changed.

 

Anyway, personnally, I will stay around here and keep uploading pictures, participating in fora... etc. but I won't enable selling prints of my pictures and I hope to remain a legititmate member in doing so.

 

Cheers,

paco.

Aren't you guys blowing this completely out of proportion? If I am reading the agreement right, none of the print provisions apply if you have nothing for sale.

 

Anyone interested in the fine art route wouldn't sell through internet sites anyway, so they won't have sales enabled here. Anyone interested in mass market distribution simply makes an economic decision whether to sell though 1x and affiliates.

 

I expect turning the whole site into a sore will degrade the quality of work even further, though. There will be an even stronger focus in Ikea poster material and even less focus on thoughtful photography.

 

Martin,

 

You missed the intent, as per 1X blog, to make all published pictures sellable. That affects most everybody

 

 

Those who already sell have their conditions worsened on a number of points.

 

 

This also affects everybody, so no, not out of proportion.

I still don't get it.

 

If you don't like the deal, don't take it. And how does the intent to make everything for sale matter? It can't be done without the photographer's consent. So don't consent.

 

My point is that it is (apparently) easy to opt out of all of this, so there is a simple solution for everyone who doesn't like the new print agreement.

 

Pretty sure that if you don't agree to the new print agreement you account will be blocked. So you can't opt out of the agreement, but yes for now you can opt out of sales.

Here is some print pricing information:

 

Gallerix - http://www.gallerix.se

I cannot make sense of Gallerix's website. It is not very user-friendly and the Swedish-to-English translation is taking too much time.

 

Photowall - http://www.photowall.com

To get an idea of pricing, I used the large dimensions offered on 1x: 70x100 cm which sells for $199/€199 unframed on 1x.

 

Products available at Photowall - Some 70x100 cm prints can cost a few dollars/euros more or less, but most are sold at the following prices:

 

- A Photowall (a mural that can stick to the wall with paste or self-adhesive):

standard: $46/€34 or self-adhesive: $69/€51

- A Canvas print with a do-it-yourself 38mm frame: $176/€130

- A Canvas print unframed: $108/€80

 

And this "Customize image" option is available on all Photowall images:

 

"Do you want to change this image?

Our graphic artists can alter colours, add or remove objects, change proportions and modify the image in a variety of ways. These services are charged at SEK 400/hr. Please use the form below, which includes a section for contact details, to outline how you would like the image to be altered, and we will get back to you with additional information and prices."

 

(SEK 400 = $62/€46)

 

Note: The USD and SEK conversions are based on today's current exchange using an online currency converter.

Dear Ralf,

 

Thanks for al the answers and clarifications.

 

However, there is this one clause that seems to be troubling many, and needs further clarification:

 

18.1 1x may at any time change the provisions of this Agreement. 1x shall notify you of any changes when you are logged in to 1x's website. You will be requested to accept such changes included in a new agreement on 1x's website. If you decline the new agreement, your Account will be blocked from further use and no money will be refunded. If you do not either accept or decline the new agreement within 30 days, the new agreement will replace this Agreement and you will be bound by the new agreement.

 

Can you take a moment and tell us what this means?

Will our membership accounts be blocked after the 30 days, or does that clause refer to something else?

 

Also, I read the agreement and did not sign or reject it. I did nothing. However, the word Signed is grayed out as it is with other agreements that were signed. Can you explain why?

 

Thanks,

Phyllis

 

Not quite so with Eurographics. According to the agreement with them, via 1X, we basically surrender most copyright to them. We cannot sell it anywhere else, ever. And we never ever can terminate our contract with them once signed, it's perpetual.

 

 

It just should be governed by another check box: "I allow printing my work on demand only."

 

 

The simplest extra measure would be to email all members but it was not done so far. I learned about the new agreement accidentally (I am permanently logged in to 1X). And those members who visit the site occasionally apparently still don't know about the agreement. What are those extra measures that you mention?

 

 

We'll live and help each other with those potential 6 options, as per Sol's suggestion. It's better to be confused for a day than forced to do something that might cause you to quit the site.

 

 

 

Actually, the agreement does not say that at all. As per 7.2 1X only informs partners and subcontractors but per 13.1 does not bear any liability if partners do nothing with this information. As per agreement 1X is not going to undertake any legal actions on our behalf. If it is going to legally defend our rights, this promise should be in the agreement and not just here on the forum.

 

Will the discounts and free giveaways be reflected in the account as well? Could you give us current Gallerix examples of regular photographer earnings for the same prints that are currently in 1X store?

 

 

Could you reflect this promise it in the agreement then? Because apparently Gallerix does sell such stuff.

 

 

The administration of payouts to photographer's PayPal accounts is not done manually, so no extra time is involved. I am a programmer, as Jacob, and I do mass billing myself. It's pretty much pressing one button and even that can be automated to be done like daily or once a week. In an improbable case Jacob does not know that, MassPay API is the answer. Photographers should be able to get ALL they earned and timely.

 

It's not the first time that the owners adopted substantial changes in 1x without any prior notice. The choice between accepting the agreement or having the account blocked is simply coercion.

As far as I understand, the only means to maintain the account but not to bear the consequences of the abusive copyright scheme is to disable all pictures for sale.

Thomas,

 

obviously many of us have their concerns or questions about the new agreement, me included.

 

But i will not accept impolite and polarizing choice of words here.

 

We here lead a polite and respectful discussion, in which Ralf has done a lot to answer questions and solve concrete problems. Please respect that.

 

Your way of arguing is offending and not helpful at all. Please stop that.

 

"abusive" is not a term that is helpful to keep this conversation here constructive. Many of us have questions and would prefer to get answers, as they are important to us. To offend Ralf, so that the atmosphere is under tension is not helpful in so far. Please allow us, to lead this conversation constructive.

 

thanks

 

Christoph

Christoph

one may argue wether I used the proper term to caracterize the imbalance of the copyright scheme in the agreement. And I would, in principle, also support the idea of a polite and respectful discussion. However, I don't feel treated politely or respectfully when - without prior announcement - I have to decide whether I accept an "agreement" or have my account blocked. Such proceeding is per se impolite and disrespectful.

I have understood your feelings. The question is, whether we let us drive by our feelings and the idea of "paying back" what we felt or whether we listen to what the other say and respect them therefore

 

I don't think that the agreement is imbalanced. This is a great opportunity for all photographers on 1x to sell a lot more prints than before. We have been working very hard to get these contracts with successful established companies which already sell a lot of prints. You will now be able to reach a much wider audience than before. It's also much more simple than before and a quite unique offer to our photographers to be able to sell in many different places just by uploading to 1x, not offered on other sites. This is a service to our members and it's completely optional to participate or not if you want to earn more money from your photography or not.

 

It's very frustrating when you want to buy prints that only 1/10 photos are available. This means that you will soon get bored and go to another website like art.com where everything is for sale, and not buy photos from 1x, which means that 1x photographers won't sell any. So our goal is that as many photos as possible should be available and we will encourage making your photos available but it's still optional to sell or not.

 

Gallerix will only sell canvases, framed prints and prints and Photowall will only sell wall murals. Both of these products are quite expensive. We will of course not allow selling mugs and mouse pads of 1x photos. There needs to be flexibility in the choice of materials however because there are a lot of trends like printing on glass, metal, wood etc.

 

The name of photographer will always be mentioned where the photos are sold. This is in our contracts with our partners and legally binding to them.

 

Eurographics license is exclusive, but at the same time a unique opportunity to have your photos included in the catalog of one of the biggest prints providers in the world. Some 1x photographers have already made over 1000 euro just selling a single picture. The Eurorgahpics agreement is completely separate from this new membership agreement and of course completely optional. Eurographics will give up exclusivity for each image they select after a couple of years unless it's still selling really well.

 

Actually all the payouts are done manually and there is a huge amount of administration behind this, but we will certainly investigate more automatic systems.

 

We will take extra steps to inform about the new agreement like writing on the blog and sending out emails. There is a notification for everyone who is logged in before the 30 days are up.

 

If the new agreement is not signed, it will not be possible to continue using 1x. This is simply because we have made some changes to the site not covered by the old agreement and because we can't have several different membership agreements for different users. At the same time, the only real difference between the new and old agreements concerns print sales and if you don't want to sell just deselect your photos in "Account settings".

An all important question for many: when exactly 30 days are up? 30 days after our first login or 30 days after the agreement appeared? I personally don't even know when it appeared.

Ralf: "if you don't want to sell just deselect your photos in "Account settings".

 

It's simple and clear you can control it all... so why all those endless discussions?

 

Ben, since as per blog everybody might be forced to sell in the future it is interesting for many how selling is going to be done as per the new agreement. For those who do want to sell now, it is important to know what changes are about. Also, some people care what rights they retain or how much they are going to earn in the new business scheme.

The 30 days are up after the change in the agreement. It should give everyone enough time to log in and read the agreement and at the same time not delaying print sales too much because before Christmas is the most important period to sell stuff. Like pointed out we will take extra measures to inform everyone.

 

 

The intention is certainly that everyone will sell a lot more and also earn a lot more since we are working with partners which are already very successful at selling prints. Selling on 1x works just like before.

 

Ralf, but many like me don't know the date when the agreement was changed. Please let us know the exact date when these 30 days are up.

 

Hi Anna,

Nobody is forced to sell...if you deselect your images, as mentioned by Ralf!

 

Here you have an idea of the prices

SHOP > http://1x.com/shop/prints

 

But, it would indeed be interesting to know the prices from Eurographics and others.

As all galleries take a % on the sold works, (where you have to invest yourself the costs material/printing) it's logic 1x ask also a % on the sales.

 

P.S.: I had some images sold via fotomoto at +- 4 $ = very low:-(

...and I never been paid for it?

 

Best, Ben

 

 

The new agreement was sent out November 1, so the 30 days are up December 1.

 

I'll leave the imbalance discussion to those who have more energy for it than I. But it would be nice to have some idea of the baseline for this new approach. How many prints are currently being sold, before the new agreement?

 

And what measures are being made to generate more traffic to the website. The mobile site is a big step in the right direction. But from a marketing/branding perspective is it not attractive. And the functionality is, well...a work in progress apparently.

 

What is the traffic trend since March? Has the new look and functionality of the site actually attracted more traffic and/or more members?

 

All of these things play a major role in the potential for sales. I've personally never looked at 1x as a commercial venture. AND many others don't either. So the challenge for balance is to find a way to harmonize the needs and wishes of those who are here for the community and the sharing of their art with those who are here to either sell directly or get exposure for their photography with a commercial interest AND, perhaps most importantly, with your and Jacob's need for commercial success via 1x.

 

When you achieve that balance, you will have truly succeeded here. So, everybody needs to look beyond this current discussion and seek that balance IMHO. Tweak what you can of the current agreement, work hard to have a smart and 1x branded mobile site and, perhaps, consult the members a bit more before major changes. AND TEST, TEST & TEST some more!! Then deploy.

Ben and Ralf,

 

I understand that we are not forced to sell now but we are yet to hear from Ralf that we will not be forced to sell in the future, like having to sell all our published pictures, or just all of them. If that ever happens, I know many would close their accounts for good. Some are considering closing their accounts now, specifically because of the new agreement.

 

1X store prices do not reflect photographer's share, so I am reminding my question to Ralf: with the new scheme of payment, how much a photographer would get for one of the prints that are currently offered in 1X store? How much he would get for a medium print and how much he would get for a large print?

 

Anna

 

Closing your account because you get a new opportunity to earn more money and sell more prints, which is optional and a great unique offer to everyone on 1x is impossible for me to understand.

 

You will get the same amounts as before when selling prints on 1x, it was already 50/50.

Ralf, will we be forced to sell, all our published pictures or just all, in the future?

 

That is not our intention, however like I said before, our intention is that as many photos as possible should be available for sale and we will encourage everyone to make as many photos as possible available. We want 1x to be like a real photo gallery where you can buy the works of the artists.

 

The more photos that are available, the more people will buy your photos because you won't go to a gallery to buy photos if only a fraction of them are for sale and the ones you happen to like the most are not for sale. Then you will instead go to a store where everything is for sale so you can get what you want.

 

This is another advantage with selling through partners, since on their sites everything is for sale and people go there specifically to buy prints.

 

Ralf, can you address the issue of balance I raise above in this context please. There are MANY of us who have no desire to sell photographs here but long for a continuing place of sharing and community. The huge shift towards commercialization and popularization of the site seems to ignore much of us.

OK, I am glad to hear it's not your intention to force us to sell all published pictures. When I said that many people would leave, of course they would not leave because of the new opportunities. But these people would leave if your intention changes in this respect.

 

"You will get the same amounts as before when selling prints on 1x, it was already 50/50."

As per previous March 1 agreement, which I have, it was not 50/50. It was as follows:

"7.11 The compensation to you for printed copies of Your Photograph(s) shall be 60 USD for large size prints and 50 USD; for medium size prints sold to customers outside of the EU. The compensation to you for sold printed copies of Your Photograph(s) shall be 50 EUR for large size prints and 50 EUR for medium size prints sold to customers in the EU. The compensation to you for sold digital image files of Your Photograph(s) shall be 1 USD to customers outside of the EU and 1 EUR to customers in the EU."

 

Since it's not fixed sums to the photographer anymore and the printing partner is different, which probably changes net prices, how much is "fifty (50) percent of the net sales price" for the prints in 1X store?

 

Sorry Clyde

 

as Ralf told, there is the option to disable print sales, so that those who do not want to sell anything can disable and don't need to care about the questions, the print part of the agreement raises for some.

 

so as there is a valid option those of us who don't want to sell anything are not ignored but regarded.

 

as the agreement does not has anything to do with community or sharing this misses the topic too.

 

Topic is the print part of the agreement, not "shifts" or "popularizations" you feel for 1x in general or the general ideas you have, about what would be "better"

 

thanks

 

Christoph

According to my opinion:

 

To avoid unneeded problems and misunderstandings, it would be advisable that you include in the contract the following condition:

 

"The author is not obliged, ever, to sell the works exhibited in 1x without your prior authorization, and will be notified of any changes in this condition with a minimum of three months in advance."

 

This would be fair, honest, and very reassuring to all authors who do not want to compromise the sale of their work (obligatory) in the future.

 

In this way the author has the option, if desired, to cancel the account if not interested in change (forced sale of the entire photographic work exhibited at 1x)

 

I hope you take take into account and, for the sake of 1x and all authors.

 

This is simple. You know that.

 

You and your legal team should be able to find the "formula" idonea and equitable to avoid losing to the "customers Authors" on 1x and not lose sales business.

 

Ralf: I beg you do not waste time answering the same thing

We know it will sell more.

We know that there is more business opportunity.

We know all that.

But some authors, SIMPLY DO NOT WANT THAT IMPOSE NO OBLIGATION.

You can understand this?

(I believe that if you have been smart enough to build a great empire as 1x if possible ... you understand)

 

With all my respect for you.

1x can respect my wishes?

I thank you in advance for your time and attention

Also I would greatly appreciate a clear answer.

 

All the best, RALF.

 

Sol

 

People like me certainly would in the unlikely event that you would force us to sell mass market prints. It depends on your business model. Anyone who sells numbered prints can't afford to go the mass market route with the same images. For those who don't, this could be a great opportunity.

 

When I have more time I'll look into this some more. I have some work that I would not mind putting into a mass market channel and some work that I sell as numbered prints.

 

Christoph, I'm fully aware of the ability to opt out of selling. I don't feel ignored about that, please!

 

But as Ralf himself points out, this whole new approach to selling prints is a both a majority priority for the site and it is a model that is predicated on participation. So my concerns about balancing commercialization with community is VERY valid in this context. In order for one to succeed there needs to be a vibrant and active community and sharing, otherwise there won't be any traffic or exposure for the sales features.

 

Please don't patronize me. I'm raising very valid concerns and only wishing for an overall success as many times in the past.

 

So Sorry Christoph

 

I will continue to ask Ralf for clarification on these important issues. Important to both myself and others of like mind, but also important to his and 1x's new business model.

 

Please just let Ralf address me about this

 

thanks

 

Clyde

here we discuss aspects of a user agreement and not " a business model"

 

i do not patronize you, i kindly ask to stay on topic.

 

 

Christoph, this is maybe why there is so much confusion. For some, it is just about the different aspects of the user agreement, about prices and such things.

 

But for some others, it is indeed about the business model, which is reflected in this new agreement. I am one of those.

 

I very much support your suggestion of separating the user agreement from the prints agreement.

 

The topic is: "New 1X agreement and selling your pictures" and Ralf is the one that raised the business model aspects of the agreement not me.

 

So Christoph, I WILL stay "on topic" and I will ask one more time for your to let Ralf reply to my comments here...PLEASE. I'm trying my best to be respectful and polite here, but the most off topic posts in this entire thread have been your attempts to correct me.

You are of topic. Stop now Clyde

 

Anne Rose, I see and understand that. But this leads to nothing. It's only a topic to run in circles.

Those who want to share can do undisturbed. Deselct "sell" and nothing changes.

This who want to sell need to ask some questions.

 

Probably this has been answered, but I can't watch through:

 

"Please note that if you reject the new membership agreement your account will be blocked from further use. "

 

What does this "exactly"mean?

 

 

What does this mean?

 

None of my images are activated for sell. How can I share "undisturbed" in case of rejecting the new agreement and getting blocked?

 

Hello Ralf,

I have few questions.

 

l. If you have a print for sale and then you have the opportunity to sell it on a exclusive basis elsewhere - or you already have prints exclusive sold elsewhere, can you remove prints individually once you have put them up for sale?

 

If the answer is yes, then I cannot see any problem of any kind, and there is no reason to reject the agreement. It seems like a good plan.

 

2. It would seem to me that the more images you have available for sale the better your chances to sell something. What I would like to understand is where will those who are seeking to buy prints be looking "only at published pictures?" If not - how do they find us? I do not see a way for shoppers to find pictures that are not published.

 

I think the plan is generally a good one, and I cannot see any impact of any kind on the community as whole. Whether you sell or do not sell your photos here is a private matter. It should have no bearing on community participation.

 

If you could just answer the question about changing what is and what is not for sale if necessary, and how to deal with photos that are not published , and have them noticed....???

 

Thanks,

Phyllis

 

 

Christoph:

 

We understand perfectly . ( check / uncheck ) ... but this does not apply in the future.

The intent of 1x ( according Ralf ) is that all the work is available ... , thus potential buyers are not going to another store to buy images.

 

But I, personally , do not care at all that potential buyers go to another store . Not my problem .

 

If 1x does not want potential customers go to another store : must change business policy and marketing approach accordingly.

 

My problem and my priority is to protect my work , always sell it when I want and with the best possible selling conditions , and stop selling it when it no longer interests me.

 

I have a contract with 1x .

1x has a contract with me .

 

We (most ) want and need a warranty and 1x commitment .

The authors , (most ) need to know with certainty that we will not have the obligation (future ) to sell all jobs who are exposed to 1x ... by the mere fact of being exposed .

It is not enough to say " ... we do not intend that to happen "

Should be specifically stated in the contract. Very clear .

There should be no future obligation to sell just because of exposing the works.

This warranty is very important.

1x can respect my wishes? (I've asked this before Ralf in the previous post.

I have not received a response)

Thank you for your attention.

Sol

Question: What exactly happens when I reject this new user agreement, and my account is blocked. Will I:

 

1) Lose control over my pictures uploaded to the site, both published and not published?

 

2) What about contract signed with 1X/Eurographics ... will that continue, and if so, how if my account is blocked?

 

In other words, what EXACTLY and CLEARLY do you mean when you say my account will be blocked when I reject this new user agreement.

 

Thank you.

 

!!!

 

 

I've been banned before. I've even been backed up a few times...but never blocked.

 

So you don't know what is meant by "blocked" either. And that's the reason I am asking, people are guessing, but nobody knows what exactly it means. At one point Ralf writes that people who reject his new agreement will not be able to use 1X anymore. If so, does that mean all my pictures stay here but I have no way to control them anymore? And, I do have one picture licensed to Eurographics ... what about that if my account is not accessible anymore?

 

Most of my pictures are licensed for sale through various online outlets through another company, not 1X. When I entered into this other contract, I reserved the right to sell INDIVIDUAL photos through websites like 1X, but not mass sales through outlets such as Ralf is hoping he can set up. The workaround, signing this new user agreement with which I can't comply and then disabling sales is (1) silly, and (2) most likely just postpones the decision, since it is Ralf's intention to get as many pictures for sale as he can and I am pretty sure he will continue to push in that direction.

 

So ... i would like clarification before I push that "Reject" button :)

 

 

Short answer no. Seems to tickle in my memory somewhere in that lengthy FB thread somebody said they had reject but nothing had changed yet. But that was a couple of days ago. Anna would probably know but she's asleep now I think.

 

Just found it. It was Andre Du Plessis. He rejected on Nov 2 and on Nov 4 was still able to upload, etc. No replies since.

Ralf,

 

can you explain to me the following:

 

I have just uploaded a new photo onto 1x and it is now up for sale DESPITE the fact that

 

1. I have NEVER enabled my photos for sale

 

2. I NEVER signed the Eurographics agreement

 

3. I have not accepted the new agreement.

 

In my view 1x is violating my copyright by offering my photo for sale while I have never agreed to selling it.

 

Can you please comment on this how this is possible?

 

Best regards,

Guido

 

 

!!!

We will never sell any photos that our photographers do not want to sell, not now and not in the future. If you already have contracts with other agencies or galleries for certain images, just go ahead and deselect them in "Account settings" and they will not be sold by 1x or our partners.

 

Yes, our goal is that as many photos as possible should be available, but this does not mean that we will force anyone to sell prints who doesn't want to and this will not change in the future. Like I have said before, it's completely optional to participate. We very much encourage everyone to participate because you might have photos that you don't realise someone wants to hang on their wall and have a big value for someone else, but we will never force anyone to participate who doesn't want to.

 

Being blocked means that you can not log in to 1x and that your account will be deleted after a month if you don't want to keep your images. Unfortunately it's not possible to have different user agreements for different users.

 

 

There is a checkbox "For sale" when you upload which by default is on to make it easier to make photos available without having to go to "Account settings" each time you upload. We will make an option in "Account settings" to either have it turned on or off by default. In the mean time, just go ahead and deselect any photos in "Account settings" which were made available by mistake.

 

We will never sell any photos that our photographers do not want to sell, not now and not in the future.

Yes, our goal is that as many photos as possible should be available, but this does not mean that we will force anyone to sell prints who doesn't want to and this will not change in the future.

 

Dear Ralf:

These words of commitment are enough for me ...

Thank you very much for responding and for your time!

1x is not a space "standard", so the conditions are not "standard"

I wish you well! :)

Sol

There is now a new blog entry here: http://1x.com/blog which should answer all questions about selling prints and the new agreement. If you have any more questions please use this thread and not the comment feature on the blog because it's much harder to have a discussion in that format or preferably send an email to support[at]1x.com and you will get maximum attention.

 

If you have certain restrictions about the usage of certain images, send an email to the address above and we will work out a solution which works for both parties concerning those images.

 

 

Great, thanks Sol! The whole idea behind this new agreement is to simplify things a lot and to make it possible to sell to a much wider audience than before, not to force anyone to sell who doesn't want to.

 

I appreciate the frank and direct answers. Most notable for many probably are the words: "this will not change in the future." Thank you for finally stating that directly.

 

 

This is VERY good news. Please consider adding an account setting to simply opt out of print sales all together. That combined with your direct statements about the future might go a long way to help save some very valuable members of this site who are about to be blocked. Also, please consider a second chance to any who have already clicked the reject button.

Clyde, please, no reason to use words such as "totally ridiculous", which makes it very hard to have a constructive dialog, when I have already told both here and in the blog that there will be an option for this soon (likely today or tomorrow). Thanks.

Given the stated aim of making as many of the photos as possible available for sale, will this influence the selection of images curated on 1x?

 

Very simply, will uploading an image to 1x but not making it for sale, make it less likely to be selected?

Hi Ralf,

 

I am glad to hear a definite answer that we will never have to sell if we don't want to. Just reminding my question below:

 

As per previous March 1 agreement photographers earnings were as follows:

 

"7.11 The compensation to you for printed copies of Your Photograph(s) shall be 60 USD for large size prints and 50 USD for medium size prints sold to customers outside of the EU. The compensation to you for sold printed copies of Your Photograph(s) shall be 50 EUR for large size prints and 50 EUR for medium size prints sold to customers in the EU. The compensation to you for sold digital image files of Your Photograph(s) shall be 1 USD to customers outside of the EU and 1 EUR to customers in the EU."

 

Since it's not fixed sums to the photographer anymore and the printing partner is different, which probably changes net prices, how much is "fifty (50) percent of the net sales price" for print sizes currently offered in 1X store?

 

Anna

 

Beat you to it! I edited that post before my morning walk. Glad you were ahead of me with the intent to give an option for the default setting. Without it, the situation is untenable. Hope that's a more acceptable word.

I've read the new agreement in it's entirety. I'm feeling better about it now, but 7.15 still gives me pause. It's about giving 1x ability to give away my work. I really don't like this as it devalues not only my work, but the work of other photographers.

 

7.15 1x's and 1x Partner(s) have the right to discount printed copies of Your Photograph(s). In such case the discount will be deducted from the net sales price as defined in Sections 7.12 and 7.14 above. 1x and 1x's Partner(s) have the right to give away printed copies or digital downloads of Your Photograph(s) for free for promotional purposes in order to increase sales. In such case there will be no compensation paid to you.

 

I frankly don't like giving blanket authorization to 1x to give away my work as they choose. This seems overreaching to me.

 

An also, what about digital sales? Will we have the option to choose to sell only prints and not digital copies?

Like it. Hope some day to sell one print ;-)

 

The PERFECT segue to moving on!

Hi Ralf,

 

Having read this thread pretty much in its entirety, I've seen one specific question asked twice now by Kim Ayres and it has yet to be answered. I am particularly interested in a candid response to this question because I am not planning on making my pictures available for sale through 1x.

 

As a wildlife photographer, for all my efforts I have had little success in selling prints of my work online, but I have managed to attract more than a few international image licencing deals by way of regular participation on another popular photo-sharing site that I've been a member of for quiet a while. The main reason why I recently returned to 1x – and even paid for a Plus membership thinking this may improve my chances – was in hope of gaining even greater exposure to my work, which of course will only happen if curators are willing to select and publish some of my pictures.

 

In light of your goal to have as many of your members making their work available for sale, which naturally is of a great financial benefit to you (being a collective “you” meaning the owners and paid staff of 1x), and bearing in mind you can or will only select a small percentage of photos submitted for curation, from a business standpoint it is only logical to expect you will show a preference for photos that are available for sale.

 

Please don't misunderstand me Ralf, as I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong in this. All the same, if I know that in line with my objective of gaining greater international exposure I'm wasting my time as long as I don't activate my sales option, because very few and perhaps none of my photos will ever be published, it's far better I know this right now than to continue on living in futile hope.

 

I don't mean to put you on the spot with this question but an candid response would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your time.

I'm re-asking about clause 7.15 again.

 

Why and to what extent will 1x be discounting or giving my work away. Who decides whether to discount or give away?

 

On giving prints away for promotional purposes, are you trying to increase sales of the prints you are giving away or are the promotional purposes designed to increase print sales overall?

 

This is very unclear to me.

 

I know, you are asking Ralf but I still would like to point out that the agreement does not put any limitations on 1X in this respect, which means that all possibilities that you mention might happen. It does not mention that you will be consulted on discounts or giveaways, which most likely means that you will not be consulted.