Hello,

Submitting a photo for curation and the photo is rejected with a very low score from the experts. Submitting it a second time with a different title and lo and behold, same experts give it a high score and decide to publish it. This was done twice by me, with 2 different images, both rejected once, both published the second time. The other image was a portrait, you can see it in my portfolio as "Pale summer rose" and during the first curation, the experts blatantly rejected it with a 3% while the second time they appreciated it with 79%. Wow! What does it say about the curation process? That the only curation expertise is pure randomness? What can a photographer benefit or learn from curation? Can they improve their work based on the expert curators' feedback? Below, attached to this post is the illustration of what I've said with one of the photos involved. I do not know what to think. I make these intricate compositions of flowers and other botanical elements floating in ethereal spaces, in the category "creative edit".  I can understand somebody among the expert curators may not find them to their taste but giving such a low score is strange, especially when a second curation results in publishing. Perhaps more photographers should submit a rejected image a second or even a third time (third time is a charm?) And come to the conclusion that curation, which is "at the heart" of this platform, is in fact a big joke?

I am not getting my images curated for vanity or sales. They are already in a few good art galleries or in private collectors' homes. I want to share them with other photographers on this site but this is not possible unless they get published. I love this community of talented artists, the splendid photographic works I can browse here, the always amazing articles and I enjoy being a part of it and sharing my work. Yet there is a kernel of something confusing and misleading in the so-called curation process which bothers me.

.

*

In the spirit of keeping in line with the responses so far.

.

I call your . & raise you ..

My apologies for my * post above.  A quirk of the website is that when you type something into the forum it is impossible to delete it.  If you change your mind and decide not to post your words of wisdom, there is no Delete button.  The only way to remove the words is to type something else in their place and post that. 

What I was going to write before indecision set in was that the 'expert' curators are those who have accumulated a certain number of 'experience points'.  I think I am one - but I've never been informed of that, or told what my responsibilities are as an 'expert curator', or how the 'built-in test judges a member's skill level'.  I guess it's a secret.  Is it simply a measure of how often you vote the same way as everyone else?  That seems a recipe for cliché images, and as the expression goes 'don't expect anything original from an echo'.  

From the FAQ section . . . . "To make sure only very high-quality photos are published, there is a built-in test in curation which determines how skilled each expert curator is. The most skilled curators get much more power in curation, to make sure that all decisions are accurate and taken by very skilled curators."

What might be useful is an article in the magazine about 'How to Curate/Critique/Judge a Photograph'.  More information and transparency for the Curation process would we welcomed too. 

Screen shots of 'Critique>Learn More>About Grades in Curation'. 

. . . . Steven T.

I don't quite understand the comments above, sorry. What is a point supposed to mean? I am aware of the "grades" attributed to a member for curating photos, Steven T.

The question I raised was: is the result of curation of any value to the photographer or is it a random process which has nothing to do with the qualities of the curated image? Is it done by real people or is it done by a programme? What can we infer from the example I provided in my first post - twice curated, different results? Which curation was the one to be taken into consideration by the author? The one that ended in "not selected" with a definite rejection from the expert curators or the one that published my work with their unanimous approval? 

And here is another example below: another artwork "curated" three times (same image with changed titles), first two times not selected and blatantly rejected, the third time published. Why is its appreciation so different every time? Which one should I take seriously? Why am I paying for a subscription to 1xcom after all if not for an "expert" opinion about my work? 

Sorry to say but all this is beyond my understanding. I wish somebody came with a reasonable explanation. Or just say yeah, you're right, curation is a myth, we just use it as an advertising tool for our platform but in fact you'd be gullible to give it any credit or take it seriously. The bold letters statement on the 1xcom frontpage "Curation is in our DNA" is just for the sake of growing the business.

Please somebody from the panel of head curators answer honestly this simple question: is curation on 1xcom of any relevance or is it a random selection? is it ever done by a human being or a programme? and if somebody insists on the relevance of the curation, then how can they explain the three panels below and the results in my previous post? I'd be grateful not to be ignored and made to feel like an idiot. 

Ludmila,

I'm 'crew' here, but have never been offered any insight into how Curation works. 

It's my belief that members do vote on photos - but they are not the same members from day to day, and when they vote they're shown a selection of photos from the large number that are posted each day.   That might explain why your photo got three different results in three submissions.  Even if it were the same voters each day, they could change their minds one way or the other.  I think a basic flaw in the Curation system is that we are not told how many members are voting.  At 100ASA.com the photos aren't as good (in my opinion) but the Curation system seems better.  There the number of voters is clearly shown - so you'll know if your photo was accepted/rejected by 8 members - or by 80 members.  If that number is very small, there can be wild variations from day to day.  

This is all just my opinion and guesswork.  There are many members frustrated with the Curation system lately.  Some have given up posting new work until the system settles down. Rejections sting, and even more when the voting system is erratic. 

In the 'old' 1X - before the new, Gamma version, photos stayed in Curation until they had 60 member votes.  Then they were either Published or left in the member's personal gallery.  It's been two or three years - my memory is fuzzy on how it worked.   I see that you've been here since 2017 - so you may remember how things were before the big 'update' when everything changed.

. . . .  Steven T.  

Yes, Steven, and that was one of the reasons that the old system was abandoned. Many images did not reach 60 votes within two or even three weeks. The basic idea of member curation as a preselection is a good one but fails when the number of voters is too small. I remember that, when I tested 100asa.com (about 2 years ago), one of my images reached a mere 12 votes. 

And if you want to fullfill most members' wishes to be able to upload  20 images per month you need to decide within one and a half days even if only five members had voted on the image. That leads to erratic results.

Cheers, Hans-Martin

Dear all

For some time, more and more forums have been opened with the same topic: curation. I'm experiencing exactly the same as many others here. Is there an algorithm or not? Of course the computer works and not the members or exp.curators. Because : Exactly the same there is with the "privileged". There are many who have an award every 2-3 days. Of course, the computer cannot simply generate percentages, but it can remember names! I've also noticed that recent awards all have a like from the same head curator, I've never seen that before! It's not about the 5 euros/month it costs here, it's about the obvious and disrespective dismissal of a large number of photo enthusiasts. Or to put it another way, where should you get the motivation if you know from the outset that you have no chance anyway. Of course, the owners know exactly what's going on there. This is also the reason why they never take a stand. Another disrespect. Now the questions : Is it worth complaining about over and over again ? Is 1X still the ultimate standard for high-end photography, or are there alternatives ? Is it worth participating in this big curation show with all the points, graphics and parameters, marks and so on, which ultimately turns out to be a single bubble ? What advantage we got from a published or award here, respectivly what disadvantage we have if its from another site ? Is it possible that the current behaviour of 1X unwanted makes other sites stronger ? Just ask yourself a few questions like these ! As long as you see 1X as the real and only deal, they will act like it ! Finally i resume that we have to realize that complaining, even if reasonable, does'nt bring us further, we have to accept or doing something !

Thank you for your point of view, Steven. So basically what you are saying is that the curation process has little relevance in terms of the quality of the submitted image. If the curation is done by 1 or 2 expert members on the screen of their (old) phone (this is another issue!!! - on which screen photos are viewed?) then they cannot see the details, colours, shades, etc and just reject an image at a whim. As it happened with the image in my example (now published on my profile if you are curious). So here we are: curation is ruled by the arbitrary. And maybe we should keep submitting the same photo over and over again... how many times? until we get another response, different every time, irelevant, biased, random... Quite depressing, I should say...

I don't quite understand the comments above, sorry. 

The question I have raised was: is curation of any value to the photographer or is it a random process which has very little to do with the qualities of the curated image? Is it done by real people or is it done by a programme? What can we infer from the example I provided in my post - twice curated, different results. Which curation was the one to be taken into consideration by the author? The one which ended in "not selected" or the one that published my work? 

And here is more: another artwork "curated" three times, first two times not selected, the third time published.

Sorry to say but all this is beyond my understanding. I wish somebody came with a reasonable explanation. Or just say yeah, you're right, curation is a myth.

Sorry, Ludmila, I just tried to delete my comment but I couldn't. In it I put that what has happened with your photography seems absurd, almost at the level of teasing, and after a couple of months here I came to the conclusion (sad) that the expert curators are simply users of the page with more time here appreciating the photographs of others, so it could be a good idea to change the adjetive "experts" for "verterans" in order to not create confusions... May be I am wrong and somebody can explain it better to us anyway.

I deleted it before because I think that putting these comments is somehow a waste of time, sorry that I have confused you Ludmila

Kind regards

Thank you, Javier, for commiserating. Yes, there is no "expert" curation indeed. I joined this site in 2017 and was active for a while, then I had several years when I did not post anything, just kept the gallery and covered subscription fees from the few sales (the same images from 2017, no new ones). I really believed in the curation thing and I must say I am very disappointed to discover it is not what I thought it was. Doing the math, it is also impossible to have all the photos on this site curated by real members, let alone somebody who knows what they are doing (expert). There are too many photos. And you are right when you say it is a waste of time to complain about it. Those who are aware of what is going on will not answer, they prefer to waddle in murky waters and keep us confused. Honesty takes courage, not only photographic talent. 

It seems there is a common complaint articulated by Streiff Marcel: "Is there an algorithm or not? Of course the computer works and not the members or exp.curators. Because : Exactly the same there is with the "privileged". There are many who have an award every 2-3 days."

Steven explains that there has to be enough curation of some sort to get enough to evaluate all the submitted photos.

The question most ask is: Why do the "too similar" photos keep getting published? There are a lot of "too similar" photos by the same artist that make even a good concept "banal". I pointed out in a different thread (with some humor I hope) that we are a very select group: Serious about photography with an artistic intention (and have our egos pinned on our sleeves). Whether by member curators or AI computer images are judged by "serious photographers" and that leads to a "regression to the mean", or a common benchmark, algorithm or style that develops, representing "photographer" preferences as opposed to "image user" preferences. I have submitted to Flickr and am convinced that the way to get seen is through connections and cronyism; I submit here because I get a look. There may seem to be cronyism here as well which is the current compaint but I am not sure that is the case; it is possible that it is statistical variation. Another possibility is "earmarks" based on sales. Another might be computer curation which could mean the "algorithm" will pick the same photo over and over. Any curation method will regress to the mean and that means aims not to the edges of the graph but to the middle.

And then there are Critiques. Critiques could be a potentially valuable tool. If you submit to a "critique" and recommended changes make your image fit the algorithm or be acknowledged as a superior image, why not publish by the senior critic outside of curation? Or have a separate category of senior critic selected images? Probably wouldn't work but better critiques would give the artist good feedback which may be as valuable as "publish". I haven't gotten very good critiques myself.

Finally, look at the images on 1x and look with an open mind. If you like the images on 1x then maybe this is as good as it gets and alternatives are not as good. All the questions are worth pushing to lead to improved performance. The founders say they are trying to improve and I hope they are listening.

Interesting to find one of my uploads still finished curation on time in the 2 day curation time frame yesterday despite site unavailable multiple hours... I wonder who was still able to curate 🤔? 

"The facial expressions of beautiful subjects are well captured." Comment received during member curation to this photo. It may be funny but it also points to the idea that curation is made by a not very subtle AI intervention. That being said... I wonder once again how accurate/ valuable/ insightful/genuine/ professional the curation process is... So most probably, dear Bruce Li, even when the site was unavailable for the members, the AI agent was doing its thing in the background...

Hello Ludmila,

I am not sure if "curation is a myth". But it's always been a black box for us photographers. This did not change with the new version of 1x.

In your case I absolutely agree that the new curation system seems to have it's issues. Having an photo rejected twice and then have it published is indeed questionable.

In my case, my recent photo was rejected by the expert curators (4% Score) and not published. But I was happy to see that today the same picture is now published and even in the award queue. 

Apparently there is some sort of an override system in the case that curation fails. Maybe that applies to your image as well.

For me, 1x is still the benchmark in photography. It was and is a big help in curating my own portfolio. But there are obvious glitches in the new system and I hope they get fixed soon.

Hi, Adam,

I got really the same situation in recent 2 or 3 photos.

Any certificate won't be generated until the photo quite from award queue, it's irritating me a little.
Anyway, I am very glad if awarded, so I don't complain about it.

Still, the most troubling thing for me is always the fact that both percentages of the scores from each curator groups are ALWAYS equal. Thats a non-sense.

One score is compared to every photos and the second compared to the ones from its category.

How come a picture has the same score when compared to every other "photos" as the score when compared to other LANDSCAPE photos, as an example. It should never be the same.

I don't soncerely think curation is based on AI. But still I see major flaws in what 1x is trying to attempt.

1x lacks competition in their market. It would forces them to increase the work done to improve their services.

Firstly, 

(without pleasing the members of the site)

we are of course, in my point of view, in the biggest photography site in the world, where a small photo of us, can mean money.

And that, can distort the "minds" of those who submit a photo, waiting for it to be approved, either for the possibility of sale or for personal fulfillment.

Now whether there is AI or not Ai to curate the photos, I don't know....

If it is based on statistics, I don't know.

Whether it is based on algorithm or not, I don't know.

There is for sure something that helps curators to "publish" photos.

But as far as I'm concerned, if there is it's normal, after all thousands of photos are submitted here every day waiting to be "published".

I, in my case, am here on this site, and I trust it, sometimes it may not suit me if a photo was published or not, if the percentage was or was not to publish or not, in fact it does not matter to me, what matters to me is to obtain knowledge,

 because a rejected photo, for me it is an incentive.

It may seem unfair, it may, but who am I to criticize, (I can criticize, via private) to whom it is right.

I give just one more example, mine, I have a photographic project with dogs, I would love that all were approved, I would have my project all on the biggest site in the world. 

but it doesn't happen.

I don't criticize, and I don't think in my modest opinion, we should not criticize, but trust the group, and the curators of the site.

Ludmila Shumilova PRO

Hello,

Submitting a photo for curation and the photo is rejected with a very low score from the experts. Submitting it a second time with a different title and lo and behold, same experts give it a high score and decide to publish it. This was done twice by me, with 2 different images, both rejected once, both published the second time. The other image was a portrait, you can see it in my portfolio as "Pale summer rose" and during the first curation, the experts blatantly rejected it with a 3% while the second time they appreciated it with 79%. Wow! What does it say about the curation process? That the only curation expertise is pure randomness? What can a photographer benefit or learn from curation? Can they improve their work based on the expert curators' feedback? Below, attached to this post is the illustration of what I've said with one of the photos involved. I do not know what to think. I make these intricate compositions of flowers and other botanical elements floating in ethereal spaces, in the category "creative edit".  I can understand somebody among the expert curators may not find them to their taste but giving such a low score is strange, especially when a second curation results in publishing. Perhaps more photographers should submit a rejected image a second or even a third time (third time is a charm?) And come to the conclusion that curation, which is "at the heart" of this platform, is in fact a big joke?

I am not getting my images curated for vanity or sales. They are already in a few good art galleries or in private collectors' homes. I want to share them with other photographers on this site but this is not possible unless they get published. I love this community of talented artists, the splendid photographic works I can browse here, the always amazing articles and I enjoy being a part of it and sharing my work. Yet there is a kernel of something confusing and misleading in the so-called curation process which bothers me.

 

I am starting to get the opinion that you are 1000% right. I long ago stopped even titling or keywording my images (if they get approved, only then will I bother to do that). My opinion at this point is that it is not only random, but it deliberately enforces the Western style aetethic - which is mostly black and white/urban. I came here for the opportunity to sell photos, but having some of my great images being rejected one after the other is not only discouraging, it is downright enraging. And it is engaring as this is not a free website and basically, in order to even submit something, you need to have subscribed first. Fine, OK. 

But then, when your image is rejected, you get zero reasons why, apart from a stupid % scrore which says nothing. Neither does the 'critique' - I have had images that score both in 'what you like' and 'areas of improvement' for the exact same thing. So, how can an image be great in terms techincal quality AND at the same time to need improvement in that very same thing??? I don't want to send anything for critique - what for, if the image scored between 1 and 5%??? I have also tried to re-submit and re-edit some of the rejected (but otherwise great) images. No results whatsoever. They even got rejected faster. 

So, here I am, wondering - what I am eaxtly paying for? To have my images judged? If so, why is zero feedback provideed. To have my images curated? Maybe, but what's the point of keeping a rejected image on my profile? To get my images published? Yes, but why am I even paying if all the images I have submitted after the free trial period are rejected? To sell images? Also yes, but to sell something, I need to have tons of approved photos, I suppose.

I was so happy when I joined in March (joined as a paid member, that is). I was even happier when I saw my images approved. I still got some of them rejected, but not every sigle one of them like troughout the past 30 says.