If you're an expert curator and judged this work to be "rejected", I'd like you to leave me your opinion here:

https://1x.com/forum/critique/feedback---an-experiment

The reason is the discrepancy between what members think and the opnion of expert curators. 

As many of you know, I'm leading the critique forum on 1x. My team and I give opinions and advices for all kind of photography, landscapes included. I would never had though this is the worst landscape ever. The 1% score tells me it is, now I'd like to understand why you think so. An experiment, as the title of this post says.

Don't be shy, let me know, give me your critique.

Thanks in advance,

Mike

There are much more violent examples. In 90% of the curation, all four values were at 99%!!!!

Without words!

Greetings Erhard

Hi Mike and Erhard,

It will be difficult to find expert curators who voted for your photo. 

Firstly, because hundreds of photos are "reviewed" every day and it is difficult to pick out one you saw a few days ago. Unless of course the photo was exceptionally good or exceptionally bad, and that is certainly not the case with the " average " landscape photo you posted. 

Secondly, because the "top" expert curators apparently do not know that they are expert curators. That tells you a lot about their knowledge of the system. I am an expert curator myself, one of 185 members in grade 7 or higher. To completely reassure you, I have virtually not curated in the last 6 weeks. In the monthly list, I am somewhere in the 700th place.

Thirdly, and this is the reason for me to stop for the time being, when I vote I don't know where that vote will be used. In part 1 (member curation) or in part 2 (expert curation). Will my vote be saved until the vote is advanced to expert curation? Is it processed somewhere in an algorithm? The logic is that expert curators only get to see a photo once part 1 (member curation) is over. Is that so? And how do you explain the sudden shifts in results? This has been going on for a long time without much explanation.

Mike, the system seems very sick to me and then you get strange results.

Luc

Hi Luc,

Really? The expert curators don't know they are considered experts? I almost never curate, I rather leave a constructive response for those who want it then clicking green or red... 

But if I see a photo in critiqu, I remember it, even months later. So I assume others might recognize the photo I'm questioning the score for. However, I received only positive feedback, while I was looking for the negative. Never mind...

Thanks for your response, highly appreciated.

Mike

Hi Luc,

the mother of all problems is: there are too many images around.

In 2007 when 1X was founded the images could be curated by the official curators (today called head curators). Published images were shown on the frontpage, rejected images were deleted by the system. So far, so good.

During the last years the number of uploaded photos increased dramatically, solutions about the curation handling had to be developed, the 15 official curators could no more handle the uploads. Lately I read a complaint by a member who said he got angry about the fact that he could only upload about 10-15 photos each month. According to the former regulations he could upload 20 photos each week.

Now let's assume: The 4,000 active 1X Pro members each upload 80 images a month, then you have to curate 320,000 photos each month, more than 10,000 photos a day. Impossible to handle, even with the help of curation by members.

Photography has lost significance. Too many photos are uploaded to the web.

Lately the oldest magazin, the British Journal of Photography, founded 1854, made a crowdfunding to avoid bankruptcy. I helped out (with 100 Euro if I remember right) well knowing that I would get no return on that investment.

Last week I got the information that the owner of the publishing company (1854 media) has changed, the future is completely uncertain, bankruptcy within the next few months is quite possible. My money is nearly completely lost (as expected).

So, let's help 1X to develop strategies to stay in the market, even if the algorithms for evaluation of uploaded images don't work well at the moment.

As an example for problematic evaluation by the members I add a screenshot of my latest upload. The discrepance between member and expert curation is here extraordinarily large. The image was not selected. But I think I can live with that. Good light, Hans-Martin

Hello Mike ,at the end expert or non-expert  it's only a word(experience is there sometime but not enough ,intuition is needed), because people who look at images have a completely different way of seeing. If the audience changes also changes the way of perceiving photography and quality image is underestimated,because it is not commercial or difficult to understand. The accuracy perhaps tells us that some have good eyes to recognize "some" photographs.

In the last year has changed so much also this website and the images we see have changed. Last week I voted 500 photos a day(it was little anyway)

,in the curation.If I look at the photos awarded for example in the landscape I voted only for some (I try to remember)  3 out of 9- 9 out of 18(11 out of 25);In the popular 3 out of 33.

The landscape is a particularly difficult category because in the classics version the good photos for day, were a lot , and only a few remained after a hard selection(5% would have remained).When I watch the races on eurosport after 30 seconds the sportsman says the same,often, because I know the track,

When the award-winning journalist speaks, I should choose the feeling that fit.

In the critique Gamma we sometimes make complicated reasoning about percentages, which then do not match.

For your photo I would say that I voted composition in the areas of improvement, but it would take a confirmation.

Lately the  great pictures are few and the quality has dropped, this thesis could explain 67%, because you see the shooting technique also in the colors.But let’s go back to step one, if the expert is not an expert, there is no option, change expert(they can work there maybe).

Best regards

We are sometimes getting big variations between regular curators and expert curators because there are currently too few expert curators. The experts are the curators who scored the highest in our built in test in curation. We are going to take some steps to increase the number of expert curators which will improve the quality of the score. In this case for example with 67% / 1% the difference is too big and shows this problem. However, all final decisions are made by the head curators and even if a photo is rejected by the regular and expert curators the head curators can decide to publish or award it to make sure that every photo gets a fair chance to be featured.

Thank you for explanation, Ralf.

Best regards,

Francesco

Ralf,

Do the  Head Curators see all the photos posted for curation, or just the ones that get a high enough score from member curators and expert curators? 

I am curious. 

Thanks,  Steven T.

Hi Ralf,

Thanks for your response. I have a suggestion to increase the number of expert curators probably instantly.

In a short research, I found:

5 expert curators with no photo posted

1 expert curator with photos published, but none awarded

5 expert curators with just a single photo awarded

I would assume people with many photos awarded know what it takes to be selected for the front page, out of own experience.

What if you counted every awarded photo for 1000 curation "points"? It would mean member with 50 awarded photos only need 10k more to become expert curator, members with 100+ awarded photos are expert grade 8 by default.

What do you think?

Hi! 
I came to the forum to read if there was anyone else with the same curation results as I. For my last three photos I got the same discrepancy as Hans Martin and rejection as result.

I also know that we get saturated by the amount of photos we see and the type of photos we see. Some days I vote more negatively than others, because of my hunger for originality, more artistic and emotional photos than the excellent technical same image we get presented. 
so, maybe AI is the future 🤔.

Elisabeth

And: Popularity is not equal to artistic or good 

Hello Mike

I just read and appreciated your post and your ideas about expert curators.

However, in his post posted just above yours, Ralf clearly states: "The experts are the curators who scored the highest in our built in test in curation."

So, one detail escapes me: how do you know who these expert curators really are (because from what you wrote it seems to understand that you know their names) ?

Maybe you are aware of the results of this "built in test" or does it depends on the fact you are part of the 1x staff?

Or maybe there is a list of these expert curators somewhere within 1x?

I thank you and greet you cordially.

Sergio

Hello Sergio,

That's pretty simple, Curators of level 7 and more are considered "Expert Curators". It's written in the guideline you can see when clicking "Curate" and then the "learn more" button.

Best regards,

Mike

Hello, 

I am new to this site and still learning how things work. I don't know if there are detailed guidelines for criteria established for curation purposes. It would be nice is there was something in the FAQ section to at least assist member curators in curating images with some degree of consistency. Eg is there a definition of "Technical Quality" what are the things one should be looking for to evaluate it? This would be helpful for new members. I think depending on peoples' mood and frame of mind, what gets a thumbs up vs thumbs down is a very subjective crap shoot. 

Also, there is a often a big difference in what is "popular" vs what gets published. I see many photos that are not to my taste, so they are not photos that I "like" or would  buy or have in my feed, yet they get published. I am sure others feel the same. Is % popular a function of the number of people who click the Red X vs the Green Check Mark? Maybe Popular is not the correct word to use. 

I am enjoying my experience here, there are so many amazing images and photographers. It's still a bit of a guessing game as to what gets published or not, especially when I compare some images with what gets published verses what gets rejected. 

and not to beat a dead horse (I love horses!) and to illustrate my confusion in the curation process, my most recent photo just finished curation and was not selected. I had posted the image on my instagram account yesterday and within 20 mins was contacted by a salon owner to purchase a copy to print and frame. A second image that was curated a few days ago and not selected was selected by Canadian Geographic ( Instagram account)  last night as their Photo of the Week. I appreciate that 1X markets to a unique demographic and that is obvious with the stunning and impactful images that get selected. My very first image I uploaded for curation was a kind of "trial balloon". My recollection was 1% members, 99% experts and was not only selected but Awarded, which is amazing. 

Forgive me dear Mike, but I don't believe things are so clear as you say ...

If it were as you say and as it is reported in the guideline you cited, then what was written by Ralf Stelander would not make any logical sense.

But having had the opportunity to confront Ralf on other issues in the past and having always appreciated his sincerity, his competence and his intellectual honesty, I feel I can absolutely exclude that he may have made inaccurate or unsubstantiated claims.

So I am personally convinced that things are no longer as indicated in that guideline, but rather as proposed by Ralf, namely that the "real" experts curators - that is those whose vote "heavily" affects the final decision - are the curators who achieved the highest score in this "not better specified" built in test that was included in the curation phase.

As a further confirmation of the above, I also point out what is reported in the official FAQ to the question: Who are the curators?

In fact, the answer reads: "Our head curators are award-winning photographers with experience from institutions such as Tate Modern Art and Sotheby's or master titles from the Federation of European photographers. Our team currently consists of 15 curators. The expert curators are members from our community who have proven to be especially skilled in curating photos. "

As you can see in the text I highlighted, expert curators are defined as members who are particularly skilled (therefore not assiduous!) in photos curation. So, and I also add "rightly", it is not just a question of the "quantity" of photos curated by a member but also - and above all - a question of "quality" of the curation.

Finally, I would like to bring to your attention that in the same guideline you cited there is also another imprecision: in fact, it clearly indicates that there are 12 levels that can be assigned to curators, based on the "experience points" accumulated. But as can be seen from the rankings, none of the members was assigned a level higher than 9 despite having achieved an adequate score.

By chance, do you have an explanation also for this further "inaccuracy"?

Kind regards

Sergio

Hello Sergio,

I know I appear as a crew member, but I don't have any insight to the schemes and processes applied. That's a question for Ralf and Jacob, I'm just ofering my service in critique and sometimes try to help out with general questions about the platform. 

Sorry...

Mike