Have to start by agreeing, there is no one camera/format that is best for all. Anything all-around would be a compromise.

 

With the introduction of Sony's A7r II things are getting interesting. I have and use one, read several reports/reviews and its impressive.

 

The weak point of previous models from Sony (except A7 II) has been slow to poor AF. No more, it is a good performer. For normal use,

it has been excellent. Will be trying with more challenging subjects, probably birds in flight. Have a feeling it will do great with my limited experience

doing pigeons going by my balcony. Used a 70-400 Sony G II.

 

The sensor seems to be the best on the market at this time for a full frame camera (35mm equivalent)

 

Tough decisions if you are firmly with DSLR and never tried something smaller. In my case, also having a Leica-M system along with a DSLR, has been a no brainer

switching to Sony. Might even replace theDSLR? On paper, it is lacking the burst speed for action, currently 5 fps. On my one trip for action (puffins), took a Sony

A77 II with excellent results.

 

If you are able to see some of the video reviews, pay attention to the AF modes. Having the ability to use continuous servo and keep one spot on a subject while it moves or

you move the camera is impressive.

 

Interested to see if there have been any members changing their minds regarding mirrorless systems, particularly Sony.

 

If you are even tempted to try one, strongly suggest renting one before buying. Also becoming totally familiar with its functions. Can even rent an adapter for your current lenses

and check the AF performance. I have only used it with one Canon Lens, the 24 tilt/shift but the lens is manual focus. For this one all electronic connections work which is nice compared to all others used before.

 

al

Hi,

 

I was shooting with a D750 for a short time and I was super impressed with the dynamic range.

 

The one thing that put me of the Sony was the RAW format, from what I understand the Sony format is 12 bit (68 billion different shades of color), while NIkon is 14-bit image (4 trillion shades of color).

 

I tend to underexpose my photoes and bring out the shadows later to ensure I don't lose anything to whites. So the dynamic range is kind of always in my mind.

 

Anyway, I since learned from some test comparisons that the human eye can't really see the difference, so that is probably not the issue I thought it was.

 

The remaining two thoughts I have is:

 

- The lens selection just isn't there yet, you have a wider selection on Canon and Nikon and better second hand deals. Good used fast prime lenses for 100-200 pounds at common focal lengths.

 

- I am not really keen on the feel of the A7 in my hand it just feels a little too small to easily grip.

 

I actually like the slightly bigger hand grips on even small DSLRs, my day to day walk around camera is my old D3100, which is pretty tiny, but has a nice sized grip, I tend not to use a strap to force myself to always be holding the camera ready to shoot, and the D3100 and D750 always felt good to hold one handed, the sony doesn't sit well in my hand.

 

Hi Alex

 

You are right about the size and would take some getting used to. I have always kept a Leica rangefinder system and was right at home. Size is just like the M-240 minus the EVF. Do have to agree, nothing feels on your had like D4s :)

 

Regarding the RAW format, there is no concern and lots of misinformation. I can only think about the lossless compression Sony uses. The experts indicate there is no quality loss.

 

Right now the A7r II is compared, quality wise, to medium format models .... and holding its own. Michael Reichmann finished a review, interesting, might want to check it out.

 

For anyone wanting to use non-Sony lenses, which is one of the great appeals, I would rent a camera/adapter and try. Some seem to work better than others. I don't have personal experience since all the non Sony lenses I own are manual focus.

 

al

Hi all

I also use a D750 as a main camera but I have a Nikon V1 as a backup The V1 is mirror less and has a 10mp 1 inch sensor and the camera body is very small. With the adapter it takes all my full frame lenses but with a 2.7X magnifying factor. My 70-300 therefore become a equivalent to 800mm. It has become my defacto birding camera. It also has a silent mode for the shutter which is just audible close to your face, also great for birding. Its a very useful addition to my equipment list. Now if they made it full frame, that would be something.

 

Tony

...... and you would be using just a 70-300 !!!! Tony !! Everything is a compromise.

 

If you use it at the 800 reach, make sure it is firmly attached to a tripod using your best technique. The quality is there, you need to bring it out.

 

Most of the complaints are due to camera shake. You would never use a Nikon 600 f/4.0 with crop factor camera as casually.

 

New technology is great, the twenty fps rate is something impressive !!!

 

al

Hi Alfred, I own a A7R so I can speak after having in hand what we are speaking about.

 

I think DSLR are still the best for some kind of specialized usage, but Mirrorless is the best choiche for the most of photographers.

 

A7R is great quality in a very compact body. I use most of the time the Zeiss 2.8/35. With this lens, I can bring the camera during my alpinism tour and rock climbing, as it's less than 550g in total, with the quality of a FF camera with no low pass filter.

 

I'm using it also for professional picture: macro of food and watches, with the Sony G 90mm and for this kind of usage it's just perfect, even if it adds lot of weight. But, in studio, you don't need a super light camera.

 

The e-viewfinder with a format of 720p is more than perfect, I think we are not missing anything instead of a standard viewfinder (maybe we are also getting a bit more...).

 

Now, going back to your question: does the A7RII changed the mirrorless market? I think the answer is YES. The tecnology inside this camera is probably the best of the market.

 

My only concern is that Sony, with all A7II serie body, is missing the point of the weigh.

 

Photography is compromise, and, if we choose mirrorless body instead of DSLR body, is mainly for the size and weight. A7RII is about 600g vs 400g of A7R. This keeped me away to buy the mark-II.

 

I hope for the future Sony will not follow the "have it hard" in tecnology trend, and keep focused on what the Mirrorless were born. Hope not to see a A7RIII of 800g and a kilo A7RIV!!

 

BUT, I'm speaking as an user of A7R mk-I, I just tried A7RII at B&H when I choosed the mk-I. So, maybe, you could give me a complitely different opinion as a long term user.

Hi Luca

 

All great points and agree !

 

When using the A7r II for wildlife with a longer lens, it is advisable using he accessory grip. As is, the camera is too small for handling long heavy lenses.

 

I did not noticed difference with the small size and the shorter focal length. Started seeing the problem with the 70-200.

 

I don't think Sony is trying to go lighter at all, the new R II is heavier than original 7 and even the II is heavier and slightly larger than the original.

 

I"m still testing the AF with small/fast birds in flight. Need more time to make a full decision but as of now, I feel it has the best AF of any camera I have used.

 

btw on of my favorite lenses is the Canon 24 Tilt/shift with the Metabones IV adapter. Would be great for some of the things you are doing. This lens will transfer all the lens information for the exif data and with current Canon AF lenses (reported) AF speed is as good as using a Canon five series body. That I would like to see for myself, might rent a couple of lenses to try.

 

al

Hi,

 

I am current using Nikon D750 with fullframe lenses. Right now I am also in the decision phase to change to Sony A7 II (not RII, I do not need/want 42MP). Reason for the change: This Sony system is significantly lighter than the Nikon fullframe system but gives me the same opportunities. The only disadvantage I discovered until now: the Nikon autofocus should be (is?) obviously better than the Sony autofocus system. For my photography of architecture and during travelling (no Sport, no wildlife, ...) this is no issue for me.

 

Has someone experiences in comparing (or changing) Nikon D750 and Sony A7II ?

 

Harry

Hi Harry

 

I have compared the AF system to the D4, the Sony A7r II is better. The A7II is not far behind at all. What i like the most is ability to focus on a face, recompose in continuous servo with the AF point staying put. Or subject start moving and AF point tracking perfectly.

 

As far as quality, when the A7II came out, we compared the files to our Leica M-240. Would give the edge to the Sony but were close, however, in dynamic range and high ISO performance it was no match. You could see a difference.

 

Since the Sony can take Leica M-lenses, we sold all the Leica bodies, both M-240s and M-Monochrome. Now the new rII its being compared to the new S007 (a 2 1/4 format Leica)

 

Still keeping the A7 II and using a lot, as you say, not need for that many MP. btw for you the Tilt/shift lenses with an adapter would be great. Have not used the Nikon but new Canon is superb. Records all functions, only available for Canon at this time but Nikon version will be out soon. The current does not electronic contacts.

 

Also you have the Cambo Actus https://www.cambo.com/en/actus-mini/cambo-actus-mini-view-camera/ Still tempted to put a system together, some kind of impressive.

 

I'm friends with Clive Butcher (Landscape Master) and he is using the Cambo with a A7r, probably has the new one now. In his exhibition has some giant prints, over eight feet across. Does panos using the shift function for perfect stitching and no distortion. Check out the link, will be interesting !

 

al

Thanks, Al. My thinking goes more and more to Sony A7II. Great system.

Harry

my sony dslr´s:

a700

a850

my sony mirrorless´s:

a99

 

imho, with the exception of (fast and distant) wild life and some sports they deliver quite good.

in my case, because i have some analogue m42 glass keeped in my closet (maybe to many...) that i really like to use, the sony system offered since the beginning the advantage of body stabilization, so I started a system based on sony bodies more a less 5 years ago.

the mirrorless system of the 99 required a little extra practice in the handling, but nothing that should be taken seriously.

to be honest, for what i use to shoot i never felt the need of more "af" speed, so i can not help in the rest of the discussion.

for all who may want to use analogue glass of any kind body stab is a real advantage and with those bodies i own my analogue lenses work really great, with no shaken shots, and shooting becomes a totally different experience.

well, sometimes it feels good just not to ear the "bzz...bzzzzzzz...bz...bz... bip" of the "af" :) - ok..., i was exagerating, i just ear the "bzz....bip" but i ear it many many times... :)

 

good light everybody,

best,

paulo

 

Hi.

 

I as many of you have way too many cameras. And the Sony A7rII is a very good camera. Much improved from the first version. I use it and like it. But there is a catch. But also the Fuji x100t is another good camera and for some purposes better. So I compared files of the Sony, the Fuji, the Nikon 810 and my Phase One IQ160. Yes Phase one leaves all in the dust but that is not the point. They are all great in some way and horrible in others. We are in an age of pixel peeping. I then printed the files and compared the prints of the modern with a 30 year old print of an image taken with a Hassie on TriX. If I compare the resolution even the Fiji wins. If I step back and look at the images analogue image has texture and real grain. It is more organic. Basically we are in different mediums. And they all win on their own in some way.

 

Resolution is great in the right hands. 80 megapixels in medium format will scream out any minor mistake. A 35mm film image on a Leica will not. That is why there is a healthy used camera market for high resolution 35mm cameras. A lot of users get slapped around by them. So my point is that most people unless they are printing large images don't need the extra resolution. They do need to practice basic skills because in the end 6months from now a new breed of cameras will come out better than the ones that just came out but are we better. When we had film only we focused on the craft the equipment really did not change.

 

Best to all. M

Interesting thoughts Melvin.

 

I entered digital land two years ago and did not think one moment about a DSLR. My choice was the Olympus EM5 (micro 4/3) and still do a lot of work with it. The less weight I have to carry, the happier my back is at the end of the day. The number of pixels have never been an issue for me, I don't print larger than 60x80 cm. The only real problem is low light capability, over ISO800 noise starts to be an issue, and no noise reduction post-processing trick will cure that.

 

Recently I acquired the new Sony A7II, slightly bulkier but still about 500 grams below any full frame DSLR. The in camera stabilisation is just perfect, even better than on the Olympus. The 24MP are more than enough for my purposes, mainly architecture and abstract. And the much critisized Sony Zeiss 24-70 f/4 works better than expected.

 

Cheers,

Luc

 

Excellent discussion and all to the point/useful !

 

All the mirrorless seem to be doing well and producing needed quality, all depends on application.

 

The A7r II will rival a medium format system, check out Michael Reichmann's companions between the Leica (type 007), Pentax 645 and Sony A7r II ... will surprise you. Only the monster 80MP and above will surpass in quality at a much larger size. Melvin is right about that :)

 

btw the Sony did well in Iceland, not a problem, only shot one of my two A7 II, battery life was not a problem, they are small and easy to carry a few spares. Even with the severe cold/wind, only used to a day ... agin the days are sort of short, around four hours but did plenty before and after, long shooting day. I think I did put in a fresh battery for the Aurora shooting.

 

Only complaint I have with the sony and its my only system now, repair !!!!! Fabs and I had a a7r II each, hers went down with a bad sensor in under three months. Repairs are not done by Sony, relegated to third party and no word on time. At all.

 

We were able to work out a deal with B&H for the damaged camera. They are GREAT, I sold mine and we each got another A7 II. After all it was the camera that made us switch from the Leica M-240. If one goes down, its easier replacing with its lower cost and we feel nothing is being lost in real world quality. The only feature I miss is the noiseless shutter button function.

 

Lucy the 24-70 is being replaced with a new 2.8, no idea of the size but has to be larger. Not sure If I would even consider one. I am keeping my 16-35 f/ 4.0 and using mostly single focus lenses. I have always been attracted to smaller systems.

 

al

 

Hi Al,

No, I will not replace the 24-70 with the new f2.8. Will be bulkier for sure and I hardly ever use lens openings blow f/8. Same for the Sony 70-200.

 

Battery life is not an issue as long as you have a couple of spares. Similar experience with the Olympus, I'm getting used to it.

 

Luc

Hi Luc

 

Will not even consider changing to the 2.8 lenses, size is a concern.

 

The only application I have for a faster less would be shooting Auroras and even there just need to up the ISO a bit more. No problem for the camera.

 

One lens that is intriguing to me is the 21 Loxia and even more the Leica 21 Summilux. They would not get that much use so its crazy to go after either.

 

btw for charging I'm using Watson Duo LCD chargers. Can change plates for using with just about any batter, two at a time and can see the state of the battery. Highly recommended.

 

al

Thanks for the tip on battery chargers Al, I'll have a look in the online shops here in Europe.

 

Leica Summilux probably far above my budget, Loxia 21 makes me dream, but may be too close to the 24-70. I am looking out for the announced Xtreme wide angles by Voightlander (announced for March). One of these may be more useful

for indoor architecture.

 

Luc

Hi

 

Earlier today a friend brought some of his Sony rx1rii files. He just got this little beast. The files are gorgeous. The camera is so small and it is impossible to believe this little thing has so much power. The only thing that will prevent me from getting one is that 3k is a lot of money for a camera with a fixed lens. But the images are wicked. So I may obsess about it until I convince myself I have to have one or die and then get upset when another better version comes out in December. I guess that is the power of good marketing to obsessive compulsive photographers.

 

M

 

Yes, Sony rolls on now. For almost a year ago I bought Rx1R to have a lightweight camera on my travels and hiking. It has 35 mm fixed ziess f2.0 optics that are wonderful. The only problem with it was the auto focus that missed quite often. In several forums, we have begged that Sony will release a firmware update. It has been completely silent from Sony. But - then - BAM - Rx1RII - BAM - a7rii .....

 

I'll stick to my d810 and Otus line-up. I just pre-ordered the new 28mm Otus. Hrrmmm.

 

Sony has really taken the grip and Nikon and Canon have to shift gear.

 

HI Luc

 

Can recommend the Voigtlander lenses, have the 12mm.

 

Will be looking at the new 15mm, is reported to be free of purple fringing. Easy to take out with an action made by Adobe but inconvenient, the action is called flat field converter.

 

Melvin the RX-1r II is one impressive camera, just a steep price. If you take into consideration a high quality lens is included ... not a bad deal.

 

Kent, the A7 II is very impressive in every way and won't brake the bank. As I said before, my only concern is repairs when needed.

 

... that Otus line up is some kind of impressive

 

al

 

Kent, the A7 II is very impressive in every way and won't brake the bank. As I said before, my only concern is repairs when needed.

 

Al,

Ok! I'm convinced. Today I tried the Sony A7 II - bad idea, bad idea :-) It is now on my wishlist. It competes well against my Phase One 645DF with Phase One IQ 140 back. That was totally unnecessarily knowledge and sounds expensive. And it is (well hrrmmm) smaller :-) I wonder how the Sony is with the Batis lineup. But I'm not quite sure about the autofokus - still.

Hi Kent

 

The best AF for the Sony A7 series is the A7r II Slightly better than the A7 II

 

Just to give you an idea how good the A7 II is ... we do butterflies in flight and tracks them :) Also have done some indoor work at a nightclub, got the images in FB, might want to see, not that far down the page. Razor sharp and fast focusing.

 

The A7 II will give you great quality but will not be up the standard of the A7r II As I mentioned, the extra megapixels were an inconvenience with processing and unless you are doing some gigantic prints, can't see the point.

 

Have not shot a Batis but might go for the 25 ? All reports are good, both 25 and 85 ! Should be available mid February. btw if in doubt, just rent one for a week, best way to see if it works for you.

 

al

Hi. Can't take the anymore you all are a bad influence. Just ordered the A7rii. I am so weak.

Way to go Melvin :) ... consumer restraint is sooooo difficult !!

 

Looking forward to your review, it will amaze you. btw for the AF functioning, best to look at the videos by Gary Fong, will cut the time learning curve down to size. Reading the instructions, is difficult to grasp what is going on, very different from anything you have used before :)

 

al

Thanks Al. Yes it will complement the pounds of Phase gear i carry around. I have always been a MF kid, it is home, but this Sony takes the cake. Now I have to build a kit for it. There is do much buzz about this camera it has to be good.

................. :)

 

Well my friends. This morning, I took a break from my pixel fiddling and went down to the city to try out the A7RII. My materialistic incur took over so I relented and is now an owner of a A7RII house. Now I just have to find a good adapter for all of my Nikon lenses. This kind of forum threads are expensive. Al, it was you who started this thread huh? :-)

GAS!

A well known syndrome amongst photographers and musicians ....

 

Welcome in the Sony club Kent!

Oh !!! Life is good Kent :)

 

The only adapter worth getting is the Metabones, they have one for the Canon, transmits all lens information and does not slow down AF at all.

 

Have not checked for a few weeks but a version for Nikon was being released, maybe is out already?

 

Not sure what lenses would be good for you but the biggest bargain for Sony is the 28mm, actually cheap compared to all others and its is a great performer. Did use it in Iceland, was surprised.

 

Welcome to the Sony family !!!

 

al

 

I am glad that I ended up playing drums when I was a teenager.......

 

I mean "gave up" drumming. Swenglish is sometimes difficult. Anyway, I'll go for the Batis 28mm and then wait for the Metabones (btw, expensive lad).

 

In the meantime I will now grab my Nikon and wheel-bag for some nice shooting time :-)

 

Life is good.

Hi Kent,

 

Tell us about the Batis experience when the beauty arrives. I have read nothing but good so far ... and it looks very elegant on the Sony body.

 

My Nikon lenses have gone with the last body I sold, all manual and dating from before 1970. I tried the 50mm on my Olympus M4/3 (as a 100mm) and I was happy but not really impressed. The buyer insisted on buying the whole set, so I let go.

 

There is something odd about guitars and amplifiers, the older they are the more value they have. Sold my brand new Gibson at about 60% of new and my 1999 Stratocaster at 30% above new, same for a 1976 amplifier. Wish is was the same with photo equipment ...

 

Luc

 

Yes sure will do. I just realized that the a7rII plus Batis weighs less than my Otus 85 lens alone. But then of course, it is a different kind of glass I guess. And the Stratocaster -99 sure is from another guitar planet...... Regarding photo equipment; my experience is that it is less expensive to keep them :-)

Right - just got my Batis 25mm f/2 for the Sony guy. I was surprised because I was in the believe that it should be 28mm but somehow i managed to mixed it up with the big(?) brother Otus 28, which I also wait for. I was surprised by the focal length but 25mm is even better. It is nice and it looks pretty much as an Otus in a smaller package. And you know what? Its all digital. There is a led scale showing dof while in manual mode :):):) I’ll take this lad for a test run during the weekend after I managed to understand the settings i the a7rii. For an old nikosonian like me, there is a lot of know how to learn and my learning curve is not what it used to be.

Kindest and happy snapping

Kent

Hi Kent

 

Big Congrats on the Batis, seems like one sweet lens and all reports are positive !!!

 

Remember to check out Gary Fong for the instruction video. Will make all easy to understand, particularly the AF settings. btw wonder if you are using uncompressed raw setting, files are huge :)

 

al

 

Uncompressed RAW it is :-) Lots of hard disk. I'm used to 80MP Phase One.... Ohh, and I realize that I need to invest in a few extra batteries :-) New gadgets is fun. I'll travel to Lofoten later in this spring and this, my new friend, will follow if i manage to handle it. I definitely will check out Gary Fongs video.

 

HI Kent

 

Will be at Lofoten next March (2017) :)

 

Regarding the batteries, not much to worry, will surprise you how much the last. I took ten !!!!!!! Only used two a day and at times a third one. Do take extras, they are cheap.

 

The non-Sony brands are tempting but do not recommend. Some are not recognized by the camera, they do work for some but feel is not worth the effort.

 

One suggestion, write the date you got the battery, will be buying more later and its good to know the age.

 

Looking forward to the images !!!

 

al

Hi,

 

I have been playing with the A7Rii. I have not ran it through its paces. The resolution in the controlled environment I have been shooting it is really nice. No issues there.

 

I do spend a lot of time in Costa Rica and Central America in the summer where the humidity is high. For the price, it is ok as it concerns weather sealing. Currently, IQ is A+++, handling is B+ ( I have huge hands), Weight A++, Trigger noice A+, Controls and Menu B (lots of useless crap in the menus), Weather Sealing (B-), Battery Sony life, B. Comparison with Phase One IQ 160, almost there; comparison to the IQ 280, not even close.

 

The IQ 160 is old technology and it is close to the end of its useful life with the advent of the new backs from P1 when compared to the technology that went into the A7RII. At a 100 percent it gets really close to a MF 60 mega back and in some instances it is better. But, and there is always a but somewhere, if you crop the Sony file and compare the same crop to the MF file in print, the Sony file starts to suffer a bit. But that is for very specific applications and purposes. For most applications, it will be hard to beat the Sony camera. The files are beautiful and they can take a beating.

best m

 

Great to hear. So you are saying that I should not expect the same resolution as my IQ3 80 MP back :-) Well, I think it is unfair to compare. My phase one have 2.5 times larger sensor than a 35 mm sensor. BUT the Sony is "a little" smaller and very neat. And I'm excited so far. Have been shooting anything now from my shoe laces to the pattern on my wall paper. Next up - my cats that I will torture rest of the evening. It is a fun camera to use. This I discovered thanks to this thread. :-))

 

Very good suggestion about the date. Thank you. Yes Lofoten - I've never been there so it's gonna be very exciting.

The Sony pro lenses are released.

Expensive and heavy as expected.

Wonder what advantage the new 85 mm has over the Batis.

http://www.sonyff.com/three-new-fe-lenses-24-70mm-f2-8-70-200-f2-8-85mm-f1-4/

 

Luc

Not sure Luck?

 

Like the performance but all are too big for my use. More will

be announced this year.

 

Now I have a need for a faster WA, was hoping a 2.8 version would be

released, mainly for Landscape. Might have to get the Canon 16-25 2.8.

Already have the adapter which I'm using with the 24 Tilt/Shift.

 

al

Well, time to bump up this thread again for all of us with GAS :-)

 

I have had my A7R2 on a real game during last week and I must admit I'm impressed. Especially the viewfinder is fantastic. I have probably taken about 1500 pictures of everything possible. I am now taking the images into the computer and I feel that the colors are more vivid than those I've taken with the D810. Still I have not decided yet what I really think about that.....

 

I will probably invest in a battery grip for the summer. So far - a good investment (and I can use a smaller backpack). Nice. The camera looks a little silly on my large wooden tripod. But I promise - it's stable :-)

Hi Kent

 

I think it takes a while to see the difference and it will be mainly in dynamic range and noise. Both are incredibly sharp !

 

I will be getting a vertical grip for my next trip to Iceland. Easier to handle in the cold with gloves.

 

al

So, time to pump up this theme again now when Hassy soon will release the new "Hasselblad X1D" medium format mirrorless camera? After all - this time it is entirely "Hand made in Sweden". *LOL* Will this be a game changer?