Not so stunning models
Posted 2 months ago
Got a question to the community. I was recently approached by a certain ballerina as she wanted me to photograph her privately. She is very talented, but not so good looking. Typically what you see on 1x.com and other websites is mostly good looking models and this is what fascinates people. Nice phases, great bodies, pleasing look, etc
I have similar photos myself. We also have photographs of people that do not look like top models, but we are talking documentary or street photography where the idea is completely different. They do not expect the whole world to appreciate they way they look.
This case is different - she really wants to look good on pictures, but in reality, she isn't:-) What would you do?
 
Colmar Wocke  Senior critic
Posted 2 months ago
Alex, i've never done this or been approached like this, so I am giving advice like an "opinionated amateur". You know, the sort of advice full of "theoretical merit" but not tested in practice. A suggestion i could make is to accentuate her strong points and hide her weak points or rather let the weak points fade into being less prominent. Imagine she has a striking figure, but doesn't have a very nice face - then take pictures of her more silhoutted say or perhaps from the side where you see her hair only. Or accentuate her hands, say. Take pictures of her in motion as a ballerina. I hope my ideas offer swome food for thought. The difference between theory and parctice is greater in practice than what it is in theory! Go wel, Colmar
 
Christoph Hessel  Head moderator
Posted 2 months ago
I am not the beauty expert, but I am conviced: to show her personality and to convey that always will lead to an impressive portrait.
 
Posted 2 months ago
Thanks Chris and Colmar!
My initial reaction was...look, it is not going to work....but I gave it couple of days and I actually think that I will give it a try. It will be a good test for myself....it is easy to fall into "good looking" only pictures and they are easy...but I really have to try different things...and show the character...
So I will:-)
 
Posted 2 months ago
Alex..every woman has the  beauty 
it is only up to the photographer to show it :)))

i am sure you will manage it.
Good luck :)
 
Posted 2 months ago
I kind of agree with Monique, but then again you can't build a house with just a hammer. There's only so much to work with. If it's physical beauty she wants to see, her expectations may exceed your talent. I've had this happen in my own experience.

However, if she wants to show the beauty she feels is in her (as it is in every person), well that is another kettle of fish, as they say. You're a talented guy, and that could be quite the rewarding project.
 
kenp 
Posted 2 months ago
Shoot a ballerina and not some woman you know...
 
johnpainter  Senior critic
Posted 2 months ago
I have a little bit of experience in this sort of thing.  Long story short, I've been taking lots of pictures of teenagers at various sporting and musical performances in the last couple of years and many of the pictures are portrait style.  Some of the teens are handsome or beautiful, some not so much.  Some have typical teen problems like acne or weight issues.  Still, I've taken it as a challenge to make all of them appear in their best light.

And, that's the key: the best light.  A beautiful portrait photograph is as much about the light and the composition as it is about the model.  In other words, if you put it on yourself to create stunning light and unusual or unique angles for the shot, your model will be pleased to be in the shot too.  Don't rely on your model to make the shot gorgeous, rely on your own skill with light and lens.  Compose a beautiful shot and it won't matter which face is inserted.

I also agree with the other posters that capturing dance movement, or dance-related props is a great way to incorporate other elements that can take the pressure off the model to be perfect looking.  If she is seen in the atmosphere of her dance world, the subject is not just her face but her personality and skill within the whole context.

I would also not shy away from using processing tools to enhance what is there.  This isn't journalism.  Recently I shot a performance of guitar players, each playing individually with a house band.  The lighting was atrocious, but I used flash and good judgement and timing to make these young players look like guitar gods.  One player, though, was quite overweight.  Since I had no choice but to shoot upward toward the stage, the angle only made his weight look worse.  I tried as best as I could to capture slimming angles, but I had little choice on the timing due to the need to coordinate with stage lighting.  Back at the computer, I had some work to do.  I did use the powerful liquify command in photoshop to make some modest adjustments.  By nudging the neckline to create a slimmer profile and adjusting a few other key areas I was able to drop 30 pounds off this fellow.  He still appeared natural, and still appeared overweight compared to the rest of the population, but the enhancements were enough to make him feel good about himself.  He did not notice the enhancements, nor did I say a word about it.  Similarly, I have used cloning and other tools in photoshop to remove bad acne from teen faces which, after all, is temporary.  I would feel different about the use of the tools in a different context, but when you are simply trying to please a person with a lovely shot of their face or body I have no trouble engaging in some fantasy.  I always take care to keep adjustments looking natural and plausible, though.

You should do the shoot for your ballerina.  Put her in beautiful light, show her in dance movement, make adjustments if you feel it will work--she will be thrilled that you took the time to show her in her best form.
 
Ben Goossens  Curator
Posted 2 months ago
It's not the beauty of model who is important, but the mood, atmosphere and emotion in the picture you create will make it special IMO
 
Posted 2 months ago
Agree with Ben! Just make a strong moody and concept picture of her.....then she will look marvelous!
 
Steve Hill  Curator
Posted 2 months ago
I'm guessing there's a hundred ways around to make a beautiful image...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FqfnhFj3JfI/TPYy4WsKpWI/AAAAAAAACQw/4ia6P4aB1QU/s400/chanel-ballerina03.jpg

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/95919/95919,1226932525,1/stock-photo-young-beautiful-ballerina-posing-on-grey-background-20671156.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_F8VTiB54wZM/TQaPbyl9yNI/AAAAAAAAAS4/2tU8jZwBPAI/s1600/ballet_cuba_500.jpg

Just Google "Ballerina Images" and there will be a large number of poses and positions where there will be less emphasis on what is probably less of a problem than you think. Ballerina's are always turning their heads in different ways and that should give you a lot of room to work. Print out the ones that you think you can achieve and use that as a point of direction.
 
Posted 2 months ago
It is not so difficult to make someone look much much better than they are.  Here is a guy who has taken it to perfection and has been doing it for 25 years.

http://www.rogerganajames.com/

I hope you are inspired by his philosophy that one need not have a perfect face to look good in a picture.  Good luck.
 
Posted 2 months ago
very good inputs and ideas.. very useful ..
 
Posted 2 months ago
being a portrait photographer has nothing to do with beautiful models, it's a bout letting the picture tell a story of WHO the model is.
 
Posted 2 months ago
Thanks, allow, fellows for suggestions and sharing your experience.
To photograph her as ballerina is what I always though of doing and this would have been perfect, but the difficulty is that on top, she wants real portraits.
Anyways...I will try...will think how to do it properly and will need to engage a very good make up artist and plan for the best light possible and maybe the lens that is going to soften a bit vs showing everything in a sharp, contrasty way.
Every experience is a good experience:-)
Let's see.

THANKS for being responsive. I promise to share photos if we will do the photoshoot.

 
Posted 2 months ago
My opinion is that in many ways not-standard beautiful people are much better and interesting model. They have unique character and if the photographer has good conception and an idea, results will be impressive. :)

Here is a link to a photo of a Bulgarian photographer Simeon Lyutakov (he is an actor and the model too)


http://photo-forum.net/bg/index.php?APP_ACTION=GALLERY_IMAGE&IMAGE_ID=875574&USER_ID=1633



 
Posted 2 months ago
I agree with Monique .... but there are some considerations .... it is the ballet which you are make pictures of ... you can focuss on the postures ... light .. movement ...story ... focus on   close ups of the  tutu ... the ballet shoes ... the wonderful and graceful hands ... these are  possibilites to solve " your problem" .. but is it a problem? ....Another item; what are the photos for?  is it a paid job or free work for yourrself? all thesequestions you have to ask your self ....

cheers peter
www.peterkemp.nl
 
Kim Ayres  Senior critic
Posted 2 months ago

Alex Dylikowski wrote
but the difficulty is that on top, she wants real portraits
This isn't a difficulty - this is an opportunity to have fun connecting to another human being. I haven't yet found a face I didn't want to photograph :)

Here's a thought for you. Stop thinking of portrait photography as capture, as representation. Think instead of it as "story".

You already know this, Alex, but I think your fear comes from the fact you're getting caught up in the idea of a single story - that of detached and beautiful - but there are so many other stories you can tell with your camera.

Once you make that shift, everything becomes easier, more fun, and has endless possibilities.

Good portrait photography is all about communication and people skills. It's not just you doing product photography, it's a collaboration between you and her, via your camera.

Talk to her about the fact photography is storytelling, and so we can tell any story we like. If we change the lighting, change the angle, change the expression or change the background, then we change the story.

So then you can ask her, what kind of story would she like to tell? Does she want to look deep and thoughtful, wild and whacky, dark and moody, bright and cheerful, sexy and sassy, superior and aloof?

Our skills as photographers mean we can offer the ultimate dressing-up box.  Because we understand lines and light, we can help people explore different sides to their personalities, their desires and their imaginations, and create images of these that they can keep.

Talking to her like this will help to draw out what she wants, and then you can adjust your shoot accordingly.

Kim  :)


 
Posted 2 months ago
Alex,

The way you describe, I suspect she has some skin issues. If so - then retouching it to a certain degree is it, in addition to makeup. Soften the light primarily and retouch instead of changing the lens. Also you goal should not be to make her as beautiful and perfect as the other person reality or Photoshop can, but make the best portrait that she can get from anyone (or the best she can get from you) while still remaining reasonably realistic. If it is not only skin issues then possibly you need to hunt for the most beneficial expression or the most beneficial point of view. Asking her if she has usual problems with her pictures and what they are might be sometimes useful (not everybody should be asked that - so that's your call).

And totally forget about you doing it to impress someone else but her, unless she is using it for self-promotion.

-Anna
 
Posted 1 month ago
At the end of the day, if she doesn't look good, then she doesn't look good. BUT, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For example you wouldn't want to photograph me in a tutu and a lot of girls I've seen on 1x are eastern european whose looks don't appeal to me. Sometimes I been asked to photograph a wedding and I have purposely priced myself out of the equation because one or both of the couple are, let say, unattractive. Two reasons, I can't get my best when I don't feel comfortable with a couple and secondly, I wouldn't want unattractive people in my portfolio.

Bottom line.

If in the back of your mind you have this girl=unattractive then you probably won't get the best out of the girl and the session. Consider not doing it.  
 
Posted 1 month ago
usha peddamatham wrote
It is not so difficult to make someone look much much better than they are.  Here is a guy who has taken it to perfection and has been doing it for 25 years.

http://www.rogerganajames.com/

I hope you are inspired by his philosophy that one need not have a perfect face to look good in a picture.  Good luck.
I went to this site, and in some instances found even the little "before" mug shots better than the gussied up heavily photoshopped glamour versions.  Women look like mannequins to me in many of these.

Maybe some of these tricks used sparingly can help, but if your subject is a strong and graceful ballerina who is interested in putting herself forward to show who she is and how she feels about herself, well then, sounds like you've got a nice project.
 
Posted 1 month ago
The answer is quite simple, really. Cheat. Use big, flattering lightsources, that will obliterate any shadows. Or, use the butterfly style lighting to give her star quality look. Sharpen the eyes, soften the skin. Liquify if need be. Women are really forgiving with any manipulations, so long as they look good on a print :)
 
Steve Hill  Curator
Posted 1 month ago

marcin wuu wrote
Women are really forgiving
? ? ?
 
Rui Pires  Curator
Posted 1 month ago
"The best part of beauty is that which no picture can express"
    
 
Posted 1 month ago
Steve Hill wrote

marcin wuu wrote
Women are really forgiving
? ? ?
Not in your experience, huh ;-) ?
 
Posted 3 weeks ago
In addition to what everyone else has said, please remember that "beauty" isn't universal. Your ideal "10" may be someone else's "meh." Maybe she doesn't strike you as beautiful, but she may be someone else's Venus. 
 
Posted 3 weeks ago
I somewhat disagree with marchenland that beauty isn't universal when it comes to photography, more specifically with regards to sites like these, as it's far easier for a photo of a "beautiful" woman to get published than of the same photo with an unattractive woman. But this should be an obstacle for you to overcome. 

I see where you're coming from regarding her looks but I'll argue that getting a good photo out of the experience will improve your skills far more than working with a knockout beauty(wherein it should be quite easy to get a decent or very good shot). This will get you to work harder and more thoughtfully. The very idea of a ballerina who ISN'T beautiful and picturesque is actually an amusing thought...reminds me of the scene in Fantasia where the corpulant ballerinas are dancing with crocodiles... In any case you should look at this as a creative challenge because you will end up with more interesting shots with this model. Best of luck, friend!
 
Phyllis Clarke  Forum moderator
Posted 3 weeks ago
Where is Alex..:) 
Frankly, I am now quite intrigued and interested to see the pictures!

For me the proof will be in the pudding. :) 
With all these tips Alex by now she must be Angelina. 

Phyllis
 
 
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