Hello all,

First of all I wanted to say that my experience in photography is very poor. It's been 2 years that I am learning photography and I am completely in love with this hobby. Last year I was told to visit 1x.com and I was shocked by the level of photographs. I thought that this is where I want to be and I need to grow a lot.

I am chasing my own style and I like photographing people....but not really typical fashion and beauty.

Few days ago I was approached by one person who told me that she did not meet a photographer that was able to see her heart deep enough and show it in the photograph. After sometime I learned that she is the ex-Miss of a country. She is very beautiful, but this is not the most important thing. She is dreaming about a session where a photographer would be able to photograph her soul, her heart and would be able to get the maximum ow what she has inside of her.

Not an easy task for a person like me....but I do not want to say NO. I really want to take the challenge.

I wanted to ask you how would you approach it? What would you do? How would you prepare for it and how would you create your vision? I have 0 experience when it comes to tasks like and as ex-Miss she has lot's of photograph, but she is still dreaming about magic....

Would appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks and regards,

Alex.

Most of time Miss and ex-Miss have no soul at all, Alex ! :)

Just kidding, i hate take photographs to people from fashion because they have the terrible tendence of pose to the camera, and when they pose, they lose the soul ;)

That is why I do not like fashion....but the reason why she wants to try and have pictures she never had is because maybe she did not loose it completely?
I fully understand that posing will ruin it.....but what to do?

Alex,

In my experience, the soul of a person doesn't come out at one sitting. The person needs to feel comfortable, secure and trusting. You have a tough job ahead of you because what you need to do is get to know this person - shop with her, eat with her, sit with her. I wouldn't even bring a camera in your first "sitting" with her.

I also wouldn't set up any kind of studio shot. Once something is a "set-up", it is automatically less natural. Now it sounds like she may actually be used to that setting but precisely because she would be used to it, she would turn on the "photo-shoot" face, so to speak.

I wish you the best of luck with this and the good news is that you may have found yourself a date for the next little while :))

Hello Alex,

first step is done! Two souls who can communicate with each other find already each other. What you need now is patience! Try to think like her and take all what she gives you but always keep in mind you are a photographer. Just go with her wind and dive in her thoughts! Let all come to you and be ready to make the picture! If you like i can show you some examples how such pictures will look like. Never forget that all the pictures are hers and never show such pictures to the public! Let her create the atmosphere she likes and you just follow her. When she opens her self and you sense the right moment than photograph her!

Good luck to you!

Robert

I think Kevin just about said it all. Familiarity, comfort, trust, security are all emotions that must be cultivated and nurtured. Spend time and don't expect too much, you might be surprised at how easily or how hard this task is. It will depend totally on the 2 of you, is she really willing to show a soul if she has much of one, are you willing to just look and not seek.

BTW, if you really need to shoot a soul, just turn the shoe over...

I bet she wants to have sex with you. Or maybe an X-ray photo?

But anyway, it comes down to how her soul is. Even if you succeed in making a photo that shows her character very well (after all this is what we're talking about), there's no guarantee she would like it.
I could hardly think of any photograph ever taken that could properly express the "soul and heart" of any human being. In a photo you can only show one side of a character, one state of mind at a given point of life. People are much more complicated. I doubt photography is the right medium for this; it does have its limits.

Probably you could cut the whole story short if you asked her, "OK, and what is your soul like, what is in your heart?" Women LOVE such questions anyway.

She needs to be naked definitely. . . ;-) Wait a minute, how long ago was this 'ex' miss thing. . 1946? . . . ;-) OK enough bad taste jokes.
Balazs is right, maybe try to find out what this picture she may have in her head might look like. Maybe you could look at some portraits by famous and/or skilled photographers in which you feel the subject's soul has been captured and try to work out how that was achieved. What the process of setting up and taking the pic was. . . Not easy to define I don't think. Why does she think it is even possible? Anyway, go for it.
An interesting challenge, whether you succeed or fail. Good luck.
Jon

It may not work to photograph "souls" but surely works to get less "posed" photos... use sequential shots. People pose for the photo, but half a second later they hear the "click" or see the flash, they tend to relax and show more how they really are... so... I bet that is you can at least capture 3 photos in a second and a half... one of them will have what you can consider to be close to the "soul" ;-)
Just don't do it all the times during the session... or she will get used and maintain the "pose" longer.
You can always try to shoot as she is preparing the "pose".
I like to shoot almost randomly during a session and it's not the first time "the model" wants to keep a certain photo taken "outside the pose" for themselves and ask to not share it or publish it in public.

I'm afraid my photograpghical skill are not good enought to be of any help. But maybe something else that sprung to my mind might be helpfull. Her queastion is a rather peculiar one. I would suggest trying to get more 'grip'on that first. It will make a lot of difference if she is searching for beauty lost, her 'true self' or just some company

I would suggest not asking her why she want these photo's taken. But how these pictures would help her in the near future an further future. How would her life be different when you are finished, how would important people in her life notice that her soul has been captured on film (chip)....

Let her talk freely about that, challenge her in that exploration.

If she trusts you enough you might be able to take picture during that conversation too. You might be able to catch what she's looking for right then. Otherwise you might be able to explore how to follow up on that first interview.
It might be more of a coaching job at first instead of photography.

Best of luck

What does your girlfriend think about this ?!

PS: I do not believe any photograph can show soul, at least in the way she seems to ask from you. I bet she is just tired of studio shot and want something else. Jon is right: try the nude (if she did not before, and your girlfriend is OK with that)

Yousef Karsh, Edward Steichen and I (hah!) would disagree with you on that point.

Besides, the soul is a construct...a reified construct, granted, but still, if it exists at all, not a tangible thing.

So how do you photograph the intangible?

I have *lots* to say about this topic, so don't get me started.

Probably a safe bet.


So f****g true.


I agree entirely...even granted that the photo is excellent in every regard--and that may be the toughest part of the task.

This is good advice. Don't be stingy with the shutter. Let the model know that you will click the shutter no matter what they do, how they look. Once they know that you are not waiting for them to create the magic moment and they are more likely to relax. However, a relaxed portrait isn't always the best portrait--one of the best examples is the famous photo of J.P. Morgan by Edward Steichen.


So we have consensus on this point.

Actually, it was exactly Yousef Karsh who was on my mind when I wrote my rather skeptic opinion. More accurately, his Churchill portrait. It shows the "British Lion" - I mean: how the public wanted (and still wants) to see him, but we know that his look comes out of frustration over a cigar removed from his lips. Here is the other shot, taken a few moments after the iconic one. (Don't worry about the Hungarian text, just scroll down the page.) What do we see? A fat old banker with a jovial smile, looking forward to enjoy his pension or someone like that, but definitely not the resolved statesman. The famous one depicts Churchill as we want to see him. But in reality, the photo is a joke and plays a trick on us. It is not the real Churchill, it's after all just an idealized propaganda photo.
Or another example - Che Guevara by Korda. It is iconic, but what was really written on his face when the photographer took the shot? Incredible boredom after three hours of listening to the Maximo Lider's speach, valuable time that Che could have spent shagging female comrades or leisurely delivering headshots to the revolution's enemies.
Point is, we are all actors and the world's a stage and photos showing us playing our role particularly well are considered "good portraits". But how we are perceived by the world is rarely identical with how we really are. The real Churchill was like the second photo shows, because he is natural there unlike in the first. Did it become an icon? No, the other one did, in which he is pissed off because the photographer took his cigar.

To me - this sounds quite narcissistic or if not that - maybe someone without a very good sense of self. It seems like she is lamenting for something that people have not found in 'her" not just in a photograph of her. Why do I say this? Because It is unusual to say the least that someone would be thinking about this sort of a thing. People do not generally wander about feeling badly that someone has not captured their soul or heart or true their inside feelings are in terms of a photograph. They do however, very often wander about feeling that they have not made contact with others on a deep level. I wonder how much of this is because - as you say she is very beautiful, & perhaps she feels wanted only for her beauty.


Well, I may not agree that she wants sex :) But I think Balazs is right that it is not a photo she really wants.


Absolutely agree. You can see these things indirectly...maybe..only maybe..and even then it would mean something different to each of us.

So I would not try for the impossible - or take that particular challenge..myself..but if I were a guy I would invite her to dinner and from there see where it goes. :)

I think if I had one hour with this person I could find out what it is that she wants...and I am sure she is a very interesting person.;)
Good luck..
Phyllis

The idea that you can capture the essence of a person in one photo is a myth. All photos are a construct, and people are multiple and complex beings. To think you can capture a person in a single image is like thinking you can capture an opera in a single note.

However, if you want to create portraits that are beyond the make-up and the glamour - the false walls in front of the person - then you need to get past her fears of being seen without those protective walls

Take her photo with no make up on - well, her having no make up - you wear what you want ;)

Take lots of photos - get her to look intensely into the camera and pull faces - serious, funny, stupid - especially stupid ones. Take 50 photos in quick succession

Look through them all together - let her see herself where she is blurred, blinking, mouth at a funny angle - all of them. Then shoot 50 more and do the same thing again. She will start to see the ones she also likes, and will have a sense that you are capturing a truer sense of who she is, rather than just the outward glamour she has presented to the world.

It is not about the final image, it is about the process of getting there - the journey with her - that is going to help you capture these more revealing sides to her.

This process will engender a sense of trust and connection and you will get far further towards revealing her character in your images

Kim :)

In addition to the excellent tips given above,
try this for a road map suggestion:

Start by photographing only her hands; let her do different things with her hands and ask her to find the position in which her hands are most characteristic or/and comfortable. Don't show the face yet. (it's not always the face that shows the soul of a person, whatever that might be...)

Next, proceed with the legs; try different positions, how she stands, walks, sits, rests or works.

As a next step you could concentrate on the 'stature' of her body pose; does she come across as strong, confident or hesitant and fragile..? Ask her to act out different attitudes and how she feels she really is, or how she would like to be seen. Again, don't focus on her face yet.

Proceed by photographing body details like the feet, the shoulder, the neck, the back, the ears, or other parts if she agrees to pose nude...

The object of this procedure is to see if it's possible to form an image of a person that is as complete as can be, without showing the face.
(you can see this as an artist making preliminary sketches of a final canvas)

By this time, she should be aware of (combinations of) various parts of her body that can reveal a part or parts of her 'soul', and how they can all work together to form that image.

Make the face your last step. The face is often a master in hiding or disguising the true soul of a person. But by now you have formed a great deal of the image that makes up the person; most likely she will no longer feel the need to give you that 'disguised' look.

Through all these steps, don't stop communicating with her and explaining what the purpose is of each step and where you want to end up. It will be needed to gain her approval, confidence and patience.

Last but not least: it can be a lot of fun the whole way through..!

Ah King, must it always be that only these types of discussions awaken your desire to participate in these forums? :))

My use of the word soul was not intended to reference the ethereal for I took Alex's use of this word to be synonymous with "self" or the character of the person and not the intangible you refer to. And while I understand that Karsh believed the essence or character of a person could be captured in a photograph, I don't know (and here I specifically mean - I don't know) that he thought it could necessarily be done in one sitting.

Nevertheless, I think that Balazs described my thoughts more clearly and succinctly, but with twist - I agree that one picture cannot capture the whole essence of a person but certainly many pictures captured over different situations or moments in time could provide a better "feel".

True,but...

ALL - I appreciate replies so much and I enjoy the discussion. I am taking notes of different suggestions. Let me re-read it all again. Thank you very much!

Thank you, Robert. Will you be able to show me pictures that you have suggested?

One question that stroke my mind....I read here and understand that it is a journey and not just a photo session that you organize in a studio. And I need to be alone with her, no assistants, no anything....
How would approach light? Will you be looking for only natural light environment? You can't have reflectors or anything like that....I am pretty much limited to only having a camera with me and a natural light.

Why is it now about me?

...but the possibilities are still limitless.

Indeed.

.... You can accompany her to a pro shooting session and capture her in between the shots.
If you are lucky and have good eye you may come up with something like this: http://press.moma.org/images/press/photoax09/Avedon_MarilynMonroe.jpg
Not sure she will enjoy though...

By the way, just wanted to let you know....that many of you were right.....all people have soul, this is certain, but....you need to photograph people, not models if you want to have photographs with deep, real, touchy emotions. I spent some time with models.....and I need to say that this is NOT my environment. This is not me.....over and over and over gain.....they only want you to capture their beauty, not their soul, but....it is still possible:-)

You lucky 'thing':) ... what she said to you is already a praise to be proud of (at least I would be) and probably indication that you are 'good'... actually looking at your "Ballerina" photo I think that you have an ability to capture 'a great deal of soul' (soft, tender, good light, etc., well you needn't to 'cut-of' the foot)... I don't like too much your portrait "The Look" though (technically looks almost perfect to me, well the shadow on her face may be too 'deep', I find lips sexy, but I don't like the type, purely personal preference)...

I think 'capturing a soul' of beautiful people (professional models, misses, etc.) is exactly what I would like to do, as many people see only their 'external' beauty a priori assuming that they have no 'soul'... for me there isn't such a thing as a 'pure external' beauty, there must be a part of it which comes from 'inside' if not all of relevance... so you may argue that 'more beautiful' people have 'more beautiful soul'...

I think that first you need to genuinely like the model (in order to be sincere) and if you do really like her then the rest is up to you and her, and I am almost sure you will make some 'great' photos (at least for you)... you may relax and be yourself (talk about ordinary things, establish some sort of communication, 'provoke' her to think, etc.) she will then probably be 'closer' to herself, maybe it is good if you don't know each other well as then connection between you during the shoot may be of a more 'interesting' kind than what would have been if you knew each other well... I would personally try to capture 'true feelings', but in order to do that they should exit in the first place, how to create them, I do not know... will she like the same things as you is difficult to say, if she does, fine, if she does not, fine again I would say, as you have given your 'true' self and that is all you can give in photography (if you take it 'seriously'), I think... this is how would I approach, but we are all different...

after all (according to me) it all boils down to few 'good' photos in your whole photographic 'career'...

good luck and show us some 'good' photos (if you make them)...

P.S. of course, take care about light (tricky and your personal preference I would guess)... and lenses, aperture, shutter speed, WB (grey cards if you intend to produce colour images), and all the routine stuff... don't forget to charge the batteries... ;)

In order for photographer to photograph model's soul, she needs to have one:-)

Well the best way to photograph a soul is when it is leaving the body for good.

Well I guess your model has a 'soul', it's only a matter of capturing 'it' (or is it 'her' :) )... enjoy...

(I see from your 1X profile notes that you mentions God, nevertheless, I guess that by 'soul' you meant something what I would describe as your personal 'deeper' or 'non-stereotypical' perception of her 'existence' .)

"The characterization of a person as 'beautiful', whether on an individual basis or by community consensus, is often based on some combination of Inner Beauty, which includes psychological factors such as personality, intelligence, grace, politeness, charisma, integrity, congruence and elegance, and Outer Beauty, (i.e. physical attractiveness) which includes physical factors, such as health, youthfulness, facial symmetry, averageness, and complexion." - Wiki

In order to photograph your sitters soul, you need to be deluded. At best you can impose your subjective assessment of a person's character. Should your assessment come close to the sitter's subjective view of themselves, then you can claim to have captured their soul. Passport photograhers specialise in this genre.

:-)))

A subjective assessment of a person's character in that fraction of a second when the shutter is open.

We are multiple and complex beings - all you can capture is one brief emotion of a thousand that person is capable of feeling and expressing. Do you consider them looking thoughtful as more revealing of their soul, or laughing, or crying, or being angry, or being frightened, or being contemptuous, or being lustful, or being suspicious?

We ALL have these emotions and we are ALL capable of expressing them (physical or psychological disabilites excepted).

It reveals nothing of a soul, only the emotional state of the sitter - or the acting of the emotional state by the sitter - enhanced by the selective angle, lighting and setting found or created by the photographer.