Hi !
It will be my first year anniversary of obsessive passionate use of my camera and I am ready for the upgrade. I use a point and shoot Canon G10. Looking back at my year, I see that I tend to do close ups, abstracts, creative edits, conceptual and still life far more than portraits or landscape. It's not that I don't like these types, it's just that the others are what I mostly do at the moment. Since it will be my first DSLR, that it will be cold and will mostly do indoor with low light shots and that I am not millionaire, I've come up with this first kit and was wondering if you had any thoughts on it.

I'm torn between the Nikon D90 and D300. I know what are the differences but still can't make up my mind. I will choose while holding them in my hand and go with the comfort. I like the strong weather built of the D300 and have no interest of the video feature of the D90. (Now, because I said I wanted to do indoors, doesn't mean I'm not going out at all this winter ! lol! ) Since they have I think the same sensor, that is why I will rely on comfort as the final pound on the balance.

My first lenses of choice will be the Nikkor 35 mm f/1.8 prime and the Tamron 17-50 mm f/2.8. Later on when I saved up more money, I will shop for a telephoto and/or good macro and/or wide angle.

I will buy also a circular polarizer and ND grad filters.

So ? I am truly confident about my passion for photography and I am willing to invest up to a certain point. Meaning, I'm realistic that it only has been one year and I am far for doing a living out of my work. I just outgrew my G10 so quickly, I don't want to do the same error with my first DSLR and I want to use it for a long time. (even tough I still love my G10, it is still a point and shoot and there are just some things I cannot learn with it) Note also that I want to learn full manual mode and have no use of preset modes. (I want to learn how to do it, not let the cam do it alone !)

So thank you in advance for your advices ! :]

I have the D90 and I like it very much. Does everything I need except shoot on film. So I also have an F100. I also have the 35mm prime you refer to. I am curious why you would overlap your 2 first lens purchases. If the Tamron 17-50 is a good lens then you don't need the 35mm you have that covered. Why not get a 85mm or 105mm prime?? I have the 85mm AF-D f1.8 and LOVE it!! No need to overlap focal lengths IMO.

oh !! See, lol ! This is why I want to upgrade ! I want to demystify focal length and as I see, I have a loooot to learn ! ha ha ! Hum... well then, maybe I could get the Tokina 11-16 mm... or the sigma 10-20... wait wait wait... why should I choose the tamron more that the prime again ? I also had my eye on the Nikkor 50mm prime f/1.4 G but it was more expensive and heard good stuff about the 35mm so that's why I chose it. and I thought while learning how the camera works, might be simpler with a prime ? oh, I'm so confuse now...

IMO, on a crop sensor camera like the D90 or the D300 a 50mm is pretty much a useless focal length. 50 becomes 75, kind of nowhere land for me. I LOVE shooting with primes. I have 4, 20mm, 35mm, 50mm and 85mm. All AF-D. The 50 almost never goes on the D90 only on the F100. When I walk around with just the D90 I carry the 20, 35 and 85. I only bought the 50mm for the F100 and I only bought the f1.8, which is 95% as good as the f1.4 for @20% the money. Only buy the G is you have money to waste.

The Tokina 11-16mm is a great lens from all I have read, BUT it is a very limited and specialized focal length. If you need an ultra wide, buy it, it's great. I have the earlier Tokina 12-24mm f4, it is great too and cheaper used now that the 11-16 is out and getting so popular. The 12-24 is also a slightly more useful focal length range.

I know nothing about the Sigma 10-20 you mention.

I also have no real opinion on the D90 vs. D300. I am a video/film professional and the video in the D90 is terrible, so definitely don't buy it because of that. I know you said you weren't interested, but just know it's junk in the D90. I have the Lumix LX-3 that shoots way better video than the D90.

ok, any information is good to know, lol !
So if I take the tokina 12-24 (I like the "more useful focal length range" idea) and the 35 prime, then they don't overlap. But since I can't experiment right now and it's a "buy first what you will learn later" kind of situation, what I will then have is a wide angle and a good for portraiture or low light indoor shot, yes ? Somebody told me that if you choose an f/2.8 lens, it's better ?

Ok. I have to quit changing my mind. I will buy the Tamron 17-50mm with the Nikkor 85mm prime. case closed. better ?

Don't know the Tamrons that well, but if it's a good lens, then yes I concur. You will have a nice focal length range with those 2. Which body did you decide on?

http://www.photozone.de/nikon--nikkor-aps-c-lens-tests/290-tamron-af-17-50mm-f28-sp-xr-di-ii-ld-aspherical-if-nikon-test-report--review

http://bythom.com/1750lens.htm

These 2 reviews combined with webfriends advices convinced me that the Tamron 17-50mm for lesser money can get you acceptable and close enough quality compared to the Nikkor.

For the body... I will have to judge by comfort. I'm leaning towards the D300 but the D90, is 2/3 it's price... It will all depend if I feel foolish or reasonable while I'm at the store. I'm hoping I will know when I hold them in my hands. Either way, they are good choices. With the D300, I'll be confident about it's solidity and that if I want to upgrade someday, it will be because I'm becoming a pro and will want a full framed. With the D90, I'll feel proud to have resisted the envy on getting the bigger one and reassure myself that they have the same sensor anyway.

oh ? I don't think I've thanked you Clyde for your input ! so THX !!! ;]

If I remember right from my research, the biggest 2 diff's are: the video, which we've already talked about and the auto focus matrix, better/more points in the D300. If you rely a lot on auto focus then it's probably the better bet. I tend to manual focus mostly...

I've began using the manual focus about 2 months ago and it made a huge difference, in a good way. So of course, at the beginning I might still use the auto focus because a DSLR is such a different ballgame than a point and shoot. I will need time to learn how it works. It's like I'm going back to zero, I fear. But I love challenges. so much more rewarding ! And I guess sometimes I shoot freehand where I cannot use the viewfinder so the af matrix is something to consider, hummm...

Clyde, I'm doing some research and found a useful thought : Having overlapping lenses can be useful when you need a slightly longer or wider because you don't need to change lenses. In my case, this tip doesn't fit but helps to not miss a shot when you have to capture it quickly !

And what do you think about the Canon EOS 7D with the same Tamron and Canon 85mm prime f/1.8 ?

The video is WAY better than Nikon's, but you said you weren't interested in video... Can't really add much more than that. A good friend of mine is just about to buy one, but he's already got some Canon lenses and he wants the video. If you're interested in building a collection of used primes like I did, you will probably have better success with Nikon. BTW, all 4 of my primes were bought used.

I think I will prefer primes but I won't know for sure if I don't try it compared to zoom on a regular base... so it is your opinion that Nikkon primes are better generally than canon's ? All used... that's more extensive research isn't it ? I remember seeing a box full of lenses in a pawn shop the other day, all carelessly stacked, full of dust and scratches. It broke my heart.

I didn't mean better, just that more have been made and therefore, more available used at pretty good prices. I paid @ $900 for my 4, but I got the 20mm at a real steal. A salesman that I have bought a lot of stuff from had just taken it in in trade the day I was in the store. It's MINT and probably worth close to $400 used, he sold it to me for $220 without ever putting into inventory. He's a naughty boy, but made me happy that day!

Ah ! ok ! ha ha cool deal ! I finally made my choice and it will be the Nikon. It doesn't matter if I don't have the ultimate best choice of the market. What's important is that my choice is not a bad one. Voilà. My best friend had the best argument to help me and she knows absolutely nothing about photography :

"hummm... Take Nikon. You already have a Canon." ¦D LMAO !

It is some common statement that Nikon's primes are better than Canon's and vice versa for zooms. Not quite sure it is very true.
Couple of things to consider also:
- The second hand Nikon lens market is great because of F mount mechanical compatibilty. Especially if you dig primes and are OK for manual focus. You can get amazing AI/AIS lenses very well built - and FF compatible - for few $$

- Nevertheless with DSLR changing lenses often will cause sensor to get dusty (which is not a problem with analog SLR). Also note that digital PP provides you tools to correct problems that used to occur more likely with zooms (such as distorsion). That is why primes tend to become less "popular" than they were in the past - despite real qualities.

cheersn

Mao:

I bought the D60 about nine months ago, which has been fine for what it is. Now I'm aching for an upgrade, and I was also looking at the D90 versus the D300. And, keep in mind that the D300S is now out, which does video (I don't care) and a few other minor upgrades.

For me, the difference between the D90 and D300 comes down to the focus and metering system and low noise shooting. The D300 has a better focusing system (51 points) versus the D90s 11 point. That isn't a big deal for me and I think it appeals more to sports or action style shooters. The D90 actually has better low noise capability at higher ISOs. That is a big deal to me because I'm always shooting in low light. For the extra money I'd rather buy lenses than go with the D300.

The weather sealing isn't that big a deal either-- I've been caught in the rain with my D60 and never had a problem as long as I wipe it down. I mean, anytime it is really bad out I'm not going to be photographing anyway.

The 90 is smaller, which can be handy and which can help you look less intrusive for timid subjects. My brother-in-law has the 300, and it is a good camera, but if I ever get the cash to upgrade I think I'll go with the D90.

Mao, just to add my twopenneth. I use the D300 and would wholeheartedly recommend it without hesitation. I can't speak for the D90 but I have no doubt it is a fine camera as well. Decide between the two in the shop, if you can get a D300 anymore??

You have mentioned a polariser and ND grads which leads me to think you may have an interest in landscapes. A wide angle lens will be useful here depending on your style you want to develope and a general zoom will be handy to cover most landscape scenarios. I have experience of the Sigma 17-70 f/2.8-4 and think it a fabulous lens for the price, Sigma have just launched the upgraded HSM and Optical Stability version which I'm sure will be a fab lens as well.

Majority of my images are taken with the Sigma 10-20 or 17-70mm lenses.

JP

From a discussion on other sites, I've decided to wait another week. I was going to seal the deal today but I've come to the conclusion that I need to do more research. I know I have no interest about video but that maybe in the future I will. I don't know that but even without the video feature the D300s and the Eos7D must be considered.

My real concern is not about the body. It is about the lenses. Being my first DSLR, the brand I chose will determine the family of lenses I will be "stuck" with for the rest of my life. So I decided to expand my research on Canon.

With Nikon, I have a general idea on the lenses I would like to buy. I like knowing approximately all the lenses I would want in order to choose my first ones properly. I have an idea about a few primes, a normal zoom, a telephoto, a wide angle but did not find my macro.

So I want to check the canon lenses and compare. With the rivality between the 2 brands, It's quite difficult to obtain an objective opinion. I personally think they are all great. Anyway, as I said, I don't need to have the best, top of the line technology. There is no bad choice. My pictures will be better when my shooting and pp techniques progress more. All I will need to figure out is witch brand will offer me best compatibility, quality and variety on the lenses. Also, I want to check the compatibility with third party lenses like Tokina, Tamron, Sigma. My first lenses will be a prime that produces beautiful shallow Dofs like the 85mm and a normal zoom. One of each to start while I figure out how the machine works. I will then know a bit how I will work those lenses and therefore witch one I prefer in witch situation.


I don't do much landscape for now but it is something I want to learn to do. I've heard good things about that sigma and seen marvelous images. It seems like it's loads of fun !

I haven't ruled out completely the D90 but I think i must figure out witch lenses I want before coming back to the body question...


Ah ok ! interesting to know !

I thank you all for your help !! Boy ! Buying the first baby is quite an emotional step !! I'll go take a peek and hold them in my hands just to have a better idea.

Tue and this a better explanation of what I said when I said more had been made. The F mount has survived many, many years and almost ALL the primes Nikon ever made will fit and work properly on a D90/D300.


Not true with the D90 she is considering, it has a wonderful sensor cleaning system that has yielded only one or two visits by the dust bunnies for me and my D90 and primes in over 10k shots. With the old D70s it was awful but not with the newer DSLR's.


YES you can!!
Probably some left, but as Jacques said the current model is the D300s

You should never feel that you are "stuck" with any good lens. Quality lenses will hold value pretty well on the used market unlike the DSLR bodies which loss popularity very fast as newer models are introduced. Then there is the argument that if you have good glass never sell it, you'll always need good glass...especially with Nikon F mount.

One last word about used prime lenses, if you buy a D90/D300 you should limit your used searches to AI/AIS or newer. Has to do with metering capability.

Correct. But AI/AIS and newer are most of 2nd hand market though. More than enough offer to have not to look for older non-AI lenses (though I think some very specific non AI/AIS lenses were discontinued). BTW I think there is somewhere on the web a comprehensive chart for F mount compatibity lens+camera, especially as far as metering is concerned.

Ah ? do you happen to remember the link ?

Just so you know money wise : The only lens I know for sure I'll be willing to spend mucho dineros is the macro. It's the only type of photography I'm certain to do very often and for a long period of time. For the rest, I like everything equally but it's just that my eye naturally tends to see the world in close ups for now. So I don't mind going for cheaper third lenses that have at least f/2.8.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/compatibility-lens.htm

Boy ! you're a quite resourceful guy ! Thx ! I see a lot of Ken Rockwell referal here. You do know it's only a personal opinion, yes ? Do you know Bythom, dpreview, photozone, photonet and etc etc etc ? I tend to read more than one review on the same subject. They don't always agree with each other..

UPDATE

I want to thank you Clyde for the advice on the 85mm 1.8 prime. It gives stunning clarity and bokeh. I was afraid to make my first lens purchase a bad one because of lack of knowledge and let me tell you that 85mm is just a jewel !

"La madame est contente !" ¦D

Your welcome Mao, enjoy!!